Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[jean]

The Catholic was included only to make it easier for scotty to answer from his own experience - parents of other belief systems may of course contribute their own answers to this thread, and welcome.

[ahinton]

The Catholic was included only to make it easier for scotty to answer from his own experience - parents of other belief systems may of course contribute their own answers to this thread, and welcome.

Fair comment, although one might assume that scotty, as a Catholic, would expect to be aware of, open to, receptive of and interested in the stances and expectations of non-Catholic parents on this and, until and unless he says so, it would not be obvious that he'd regard Catholic parents as having, or needing to have, different attitudes to other parents on it; any, let's see how he answers...

[jean]

For goodness' sake, ah! Just let him answer the question - stop giving him excuses for further evasiveness!!!!!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You're right scotty, I mentioned a while ago that some people don't seem to recognise an answer unless it is the answer they want to get.

But there is a difference between an "answer" and a "response" (or a "reply") that is often missed in scotty's posts. It must have made for an interesting experience for his schoolteachers -

History Question: Discuss the effects on the Anglo-Saxon economies of the North of England of the Norman Conquest of 1066.

WeeScotty's Response: I went on holiday to Belgium last Summer.

Dominee's comment on returned essay: But young McCelt, you haven't answered the question!

WS's rejoinder: But I Have! I said I went on holiday to Belgium, and I did. I can't help it if you didn't accept my answer, and it's not my fault if you can't recognise it as an answer. You may want me to say that I went on holiday to Finland, but I didn't, and I'm not going to say that I did just to please you and your like-minded cronies. I think Belgium is a lovely place to go on holiday. Don't you?

Take the case that he has said that he believes that children need "protecting" from "some Gay Activists". He does not say why he believes this, only blusters indignantly that he didn't mean that he thought that they were paedophiles (how could anyone suggest such nonsense?) - leaving the question unanswered. Does he believe that "some Gay Activists" are child murderers; or seek to steal their sweeties; or creep up on them and shout "Boo!" in a really frightening way; or that their very presence in society will make them think "Those two blokes have a relationship that is obviously happier and more affectionate than Mum and Dad's; I think I'll give being Gay a go"? We don't know - MrCelt has yet to tell us. (We do know that he thinks ahinton's sentence constructions are "incomprehensible" - but that doesn't answer any questions either.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I have some friends who are vegetarians. I respect them for that. However, there are many who, on discovering this preference, will grill them with questions, attacking from every angle. That is what appears to be happening here.

[ahinton]

For goodness' sake, ah! Just let him answer the question

I am doing!

stop giving him excuses for further evasiveness!!!!!!

I've never done that and am not about to start now!

[ahinton]

But there is a difference between an "answer" and a "response" (or a "reply") that is often missed in scotty's posts.

Exactly!

We do know that he thinks ahinton's sentence constructions are "incomprehensible" - but that doesn't answer any questions either.

We don't even know that for certain; all that we do know is that he has said so but, in so doing, he has indeed failed to answer any questions (and there were none being asked about sentence constuction anyway!).

Ah, well - over to scottykilt...

[jean]

Here are some helpful possible answers, scotty; just tick the ones that apply.

Does he believe that "some Gay Activists" are child murderers; or seek to steal their sweeties; or creep up on them and shout "Boo!" in a really frightening way; or that their very presence in society will make them think "Those two blokes have a relationship that is obviously happier and more affectionate than Mum and Dad's; I think I'll give being Gay a go"? We don't know - MrCelt has yet to tell us.

[ahinton]

I have some friends who are vegetarians. I respect them for that. However, there are many who, on discovering this preference, will grill them with questions, attacking from every angle. That is what appears to be happening here.

Is it? Yes, you are right that this kind of thing does indeed happen, but I don't think that any questions here have been unreasonable or unreasonably loaded with implicit accusation, even though, when left unanswered, the questioners might begin to put on somewhat more pressure in their efforts to elicit answers...

[ahinton]

Here are some helpful possible answers, scotty; just tick the ones that apply.

Indeed but, as they're only some of the possible answers, I'm sure that we'd expect something more than mere selection from scotty and that we'd not want to be seen to be putting words into his mouth!...

[scottycelt]

That's because they are not answers to the questions I've asked.

I wanted to trace the sequence of the argument that ends with you sliding out, as I put it, but it will take ages and I lose the quotes I've got when I leave the page to find another one.

For the moment, ponder this: when I ask exactly what it is that gay activists might do that minors need protecting from, you coyly reply:

But what is it that could be transmitted by these posters (which are, remember, the only example of 'literature' that might fall foul of a prohibition on promoting homosexuality that you've been able to come up with?)

What exactly is it that the Catholic parent fears?

Again, I never mentioned Catholic parents just 'parents'. I did mention Gay Pride posters in schools and libraries and you dismissed it and asked me for more examples in the Russian case. You appear to think this is all just about literature when the law is about promotion. Russian teachers telling kids that homosexuality should be on an equal social par with heterosexuality is another glaringly obvious one that would clearly breach the law. But you (and the inevitable ahinton) will no doubt dismiss that as well and continue to accuse me of not answering your question so it all gets rather pointless? Would you have similar trouble when it comes to recognising the promotion of 'racism' in our own society, I wonder? Now there's a question for you! Societies have their own standards and each decides what is acceptable to the majority of people within that society, not outsiders.

Rather than my perfectly straightforward answers being constantly dismissed I invited you to contact the Russian Embassy for other possible breaches of the law. It is in a much better position than myself to satisfy your apparently insatiable curiosity. I then enquired again whether you had done what I had suggested. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question but sometimes silence speaks much louder than words!

However, I stress again that it has always been my base argument that it is up to Russians to form Russian Law while you and others appear to be adopting an old-style Western imperialistic position on the matter, though from a socially 'liberal' rather than nationalist viewpoint.

[ahinton]

the inevitable ahinton

I'm not sure that I merit such an epithet, but I will try to do so.

it has always been my base argument that it is up to Russians to form Russian Law while you and others appear to be adopting an old-style Western imperialistic position on the matter, though from a socially 'liberal' rather than nationalist viewpoint.

I'll leave jean to deal with the rest of your post here while I confine myself to agreeing with you in principle (and I have not disagreed with you on this particular point in the past) that it is indeed "up to the Russians to form Russian law"; what I also said, however - and I still do - is that, as Russia does not exist in entire isolation and as human rights transcend national boundaries, it must take the consequences of the proposed legislative changes under discussion here and these will "inevitably"(!) include the reactions of those outside Russia and those who visit it who have involvements of one kind and another in that country.

In the meantime - and recalling that music is part of this thread topic - here's http://mpetrelis.blogspot.co.uk/2013...ning-nite.html as an example of the kind of steps that might be taken in other countries whose prerogative it is to protest and allow others to protest about the proposed legislation just as it's the Russian government's prerogative to consider passing it.

[Serial_Apologist]

I for one still do not understand how Scottycelt, a self-proclaimed "internationalist", can object to people expressing and demonstrating solidarity with some who, through not fault of their own, are set to be discriminated against by changes in law in another country. Would he have supported the Nazi government's implementation of anti-semitic, anti-gypsy, anti-psychiatric disorder sufferer, anti-gay laws, on the grounds that it is fine for countries to pass whatever laws they wish, and no place for those ouside those countries to object or express solidarity with those about to suffer in consequence?

[ahinton]

I for one still do not understand how Scottycelt, a self-proclaimed "internationalist", can object to people expressing and demonstrating solidarity with some who, through not fault of their own, are set to be discriminated against by changes in law in another country. Would he have supported the Nazi government's implementation of anti-semitic, anti-gypsy, anti-psychiatric disorder sufferer, anti-gay laws, on the grounds that it is fine for countries to pass whatever laws they wish, and no place for those ouside those countries to object or express solidarity with those about to suffer in consequence?

Only he (if indeed anyone) can answer this, of course (which is not the same as saying that he necessarily will!) but I share your puzzlement here, particularly given that this is not an issue that can be "confined" to Russia itself merely because the Russian government is contemplating the passage of such discriminatory legislation.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Would he have supported the Nazi government's implementation of anti-semitic, anti-gypsy, anti-psychiatric disorder sufferer, anti-gay laws, . . .

In a few more posts and jean and ferni will probably have it that Scotty is a Nazi . . . and then they can huff and puff even more.