Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[ahinton]

That's up there with Hinton on the Gunning Fox Index.

Really? What is? And even though I've never shot a fox in my life, let alone indexed it after having done so?! Well, well!...

[Tony Halstead]

Really? What is? And even though I've never shot a fox in my life, let alone indexed it after having done so?! Well, well!...

Hmmm.... I suspect a typo here, for 'Gunning Fox' read 'Cunning Fox' maybe? But why this term should be applied to ahinton is puzzling to say the least.

[ahinton]

Hmmm.... I suspect a typo here, for 'Gunning Fox' read 'Cunning Fox' maybe? But why this term should be applied to ahinton is puzzling to say the least.

There is indeed a typo, though not the one that you identified; I believe that it's supposed to have been "Gunning Fog" (for whatever reason - see http://gunning-fog-index.com/) though, even knowing this, it remains unclear what particular relevance it might be thought to have here, so I'd not worry about it if I were you! That said, I cannot help but wonder what the composer Christopher Gunning would feel about it...

[ahinton]

I suspect we're meant to read Gunning fog.

As indeed I indicated above - though quite why anyone, least of all yours truly, would try to shoot a fox in the fog I probably have no more idea than does anyone else here...

[jean]

Sorry, my post's not there any more - I deleted it when I saw you'd made the same point while I was writing it.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Indeed. You/we mean 'Gunning Fog Index'. A typo.

I'm happy to listen to Hinton's views but I do wish he'd make them more presentable.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm drained of further comment, but here's an uptodate reminder of why I started these two (yes, just two!) threads (including the one about the Tchaikovsky film)...

http://theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/russia-rise-homophobia-violence

...quick change from homophobia to homophobic ( a Rose by any other Name...)... link works. There you go, sweet pea. Thanks for pointing the bad link out! (Thanks to Bb for the other link too...)

[Bryn]

I think you're muddying the waters there, Bryn. (I wonder whether JT would now stand by what he said in that essay.)

I think he probably would, though it was the general Deryck Cooke tack I was thinking might be relevant, rather than JT's particular take on JC's world outlook as reflected in his music.

[Bryn]

... There you go, sweet pea. ...

A new avatar here for your correspondent, perhaps?

[scottycelt]

As the OP herself provided one of the recent links and therefore "tangentalised" the discussion it is surely only right that others can respond accordingly, if they so wish.

These reported attacks on homosexuals in Russia will be utterly sickening and abhorrent to any civilised person. Hopefully those responsible will be rooted out and dealt with severely by the Russian authorities. I trust we can all agree on that.

It is interesting to note (at least it was for me) the difference in reporting of the same subject. The Guardian report was wholly one-sided whilst that of the BBC much more balanced. So for that reason alone the latter has to be rather more trustworthy.

Apart from the disgusting attacks (one in particular), and the justified outrage of not only homosexuals, two things stood out in the BBC account. and these were the following quotes

a) "The law itself is not a danger in terms of its application. But it's a great danger in terms of what kind of opinions it shapes," believes Anastasiya Smirnova of the human rights group Russian LGBT Network

b) "Why should we respect all your traditions and you not respect ours?" asks St Petersburg MP Vitaly Milonov, one of the architects of the legislation.
Aggressive pushiness to accept your values is unfair. We don't tell the Queen of England not to sign a law on same-sex marriages in your country. We have no right to do that, because we respect your independence. Why do you not accept ours?
We do not attack any sexual minorities. They have absolutely the same rights. But they should not try to change the Russian traditions supported by 90% of the population."

The first quote is extremely interesting as it suggests that even a representative of a Russian gay organisation does not think it is the application of the new law itself that is the problem but 'the opinion it shapes'. What the spokesperson actually means is that it encourages thugs and morons to attack gays. It is suggested elsewhere in the article that the interference by some in the 'liberal' West could well increase attacks on innocent gays as well. Both points have validity. Surely it is up to the Russian police to crack down on the thugs and for those in the West to stop interfering?

The second quote needs no further comment from me.

Well done the BBC for a rare bit of genuinely fair and balanced reporting ... but, as for the Guardian ...

[Resurrection Man]

..... Surely it is up to the Russian police to crack down on the thugs and for those in the West to stop interfering?

......

Absolutely and I am glad that many forum members are getting their priorities right. Let's not interfere in Syria where the odd few thousand people are gassed. Instead, let's focus on gay issues in Russia.

[Mr Pee]

Absolutely and I am glad that many forum members are getting their priorities right. Let's not interfere in Syria where the odd few thousand people are gassed. Instead, let's focus on gay issues in Russia.

Thumbs up. Thumbs up.

[jean]

...Let's not interfere in Syria where the odd few thousand people are gassed. Instead, let's focus on gay issues in Russia.

Or Let's not interfere in Syria...instead, let's focus on the Proms.

You see how ridiculous it is to suggest that it's Either...Or, and if we talk about the one it means we don't care about the other?

Besides, there was a nine-page thread on intervention in Syria on this very board the last time I looked.

[jean]

a) "The law itself is not a danger in terms of its application. But it's a great danger in terms of what kind of opinions it shapes," believes Anastasiya Smirnova of the human rights group Russian LGBT Network
...
The first quote is extremely interesting as it suggests that even a representative of a Russian gay organisation does not think it is the application of the new law itself that is the problem but 'the opinion it shapes'. What the spokesperson actually means is that it encourages thugs and morons to attack gays.

Well, yes. And isn't that as disastrous an outcome as could be imagined?

How much of a problem the application of the law will be is so far anyone's guess, as it has hardly been applied yet. The effect of the similarly-worded Section 28 in this country was the exercise of extreme caution (as someone put it earlier) on the part of anyone who might be involved in discussing sexuality with young people, since no-one could tell what the law actually prohibited.

Well done the BBC for a rare bit of genuinely fair and balanced reporting ... but, as for the Guardian ...

The way I see it, the Guardian saved the Russians some embarrassment on the international stage by not
quoting the egregious Vitaly Milonov.


.

[ahinton]

Absolutely and I am glad that many forum members are getting their priorities right. Let's not interfere in Syria where the odd few thousand people are gassed. Instead, let's focus on gay issues in Russia.

So one-track closed-mindedness is acceptable in your eyes, then? How fortunate it is that most people can actually focus on more than one thing!