Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ok - do a little research scotty. How many MPs, members of the House of Lords, Bishops, Archbishops, Masters of Oxbridge colleges, judges are from members of the Black, Asian and other minority communities?

The term "black community" et al, is divisive, in that it sets people apart for a trivial reason. The media do this all the time and it's the same with the "gay community" - an artificial concept.

[amateur51]

The term "black community" et al, is divisive, in that it sets people apart for a trivial reason. The media do this all the time and it's the same with the "gay community" - an artificial concept.

I'm challenging scotty's assertion that "I'm not aware I live in a society run by and for white people".

Would you prefer that I used the term 'non-white'?

Or what would you prefer?

[Flosshilde]

The term "black community" et al, is divisive, in that it sets people apart for a trivial reason. The media do this all the time and it's the same with the "gay community" - an artificial concept.

I think that the members of the 'black community' were already 'set apart' by the people who refused them jobs & homes, & the people who assaulted them & murdered them. Similarly with members of the 'gay community' - set apart by those who told them that they - sorry, we - are shameful, disgraceful, sinful, & so on, by the parents who threw their children out of their homes because they were gay, the people who refused us jobs or sacked us, the people who asaulted us, or murdered us. And still do.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm challenging scotty's assertion that "I'm not aware I live in a society run by and for white people".

Would you prefer that I used the term 'non-white'?

Or what would you prefer?

It wasn't meant as a criticism of what you had said - more an observation of society's ghettoisation of groups of people.

[amateur51]

It wasn't meant as a criticism of what you had said - more an observation of society's ghettoisation of groups of people.

Apols EA - I misunderstood.:peacedove:

[scottycelt]

I'm challenging scotty's assertion that "I'm not aware I live in a society run by and for white people".

You can challenge my assertion as much as you like, amsey, but unlike the politically-motivated on the liberal-Left and far-Right I'm simply not interested in the colour of a person's skin. A person is just a person as far as I'm concerned.

The majority of people in the UK are white so it's hardly surprising that they tend to dominate.

Still we are supposed to be talking about Russia and it appears the liberal-Left in the West wishes to impose its social dogma on a clearly unwilling Russian populace.

Trying to bully foreigners with threats and insults is not simply a practice of those on the far-Right it seems!

[amateur51]

You can challenge my assertion as much as you like, amsey, but unlike the politically-motivated on the liberal-Left and far-Right I'm simply not interested in the colour of a person's skin. A person is just a person as far as I'm concerned.

The majority of people in the UK are white so it's hardly surprising that they tend to dominate.

Still we are supposed to be talking about Russia and it appears the liberal-Left in the West wishes to impose its social dogma on a clearly unwilling Russian populace.

Trying to bully foreigners with threats and insults is not simply a practice of those on the far-Right it seems!

What are you raving about now? :yikes:

Does Pres. Putin appear to be bullied, threatened or insulted?

You make him sound like a latter-day Frankie Howerd :smiley:

[scottycelt]

What are you raving about now? :yikes:

Does Pres. Putin appear to be bullied, threatened or insulted?

You make him sound like a latter-day Frankie Howerd :smiley:

So we've now gone from Tommy Cooper to Frankie Howerd and there was that earlier comedian you mentioned who was a bit before my time ... :whistle:

ANYWAY, threats of Olympic and trade boycotts and insulting references to 'Nazism' sound very much like threats and insults to me.

I never before thought I'd end up with any sort of sympathy for the likes of Putin.

Well done Mr Stephen Fry & Co!

[amateur51]

So we've now gone from Tommy Cooper to Frankie Howerd and there was that earlier comedian you mentioned who was a bit before my time ... :whistle:

ANYWAY, threats of Olympic and trade boycotts and insulting references to 'Nazism' sound very much like threats and insults to me.

I never before thought I'd end up with any sort of sympathy for the likes of Putin.

Well done Mr Stephen Fry & Co!

Oh I had every confidence in your slippery morality, scotty

[french frank]

I never before thought I'd end up with any sort of sympathy for the likes of Putin.

Well done Mr Stephen Fry & Co!

It's a very human reaction, scotty. My enemy's enemy is my friend?

[Richard Barrett]

Does Pres. Putin appear to be bullied, threatened or insulted?

You make him sound like a latter-day Frankie Howerd :smiley:

"Ooh, it's bitter out there today!"

So equality for gay people is now "Western liberal-Left social dogma" is it? and Putin has instituted all his repressive social measures, including the one under discussion, because he cares about the wellbeing of the Russian people? I wonder what you'd think of that if you yourself were a Russian who had done nothing wrong except to be gay?

[scottycelt]

It's a very human reaction, scotty. My enemy's enemy is my friend?

You make a good point there, ff ... sadly in an imperfect world we cannot always predict with whom we might suddenly find ourselves in agreement, however bizarrely.

I think everything that has been said on this subject has been said over and over again and there will be no understanding between the opposing camps never mind the hope of finding any sort of common ground.

Even I'm beginning to weary of it all now ... :biggrin:

[Ferretfancy]

Oh, this abject nonsense about 'promoting' homosexuality makes my blood boil. Why don't these fools realise that you can no more promote homosexuality than you can having brown eyes or indeed any other attribute with which you are born! And why would anyone be 'persuaded' to be gay (and I say this as a perfectly happy gay man) and have what is, for some, the trauma of coming out - or worse still living their life in the closet?

It simply makes no sense whatsoever to talk of the promotion of homosexuality and only serves to reveal and spotlight the entrenched ignorance of those who ascribe to this ludicrous notion.

K.

Absolutely agreed, Karafan.

One thing that has been forgotten is that Section 28 was not a separate Act of Parliament, but a tack on to local government legislation designed by Thatcher and Co to make life more difficult for local authorities. It only applied to teaching in schools under local authority control, independent schools were exempt. Thus, discussion of homosexuality was effectively banned in state schools, but if you were at Eton anything was free to discuss.

in this confused situation teachers were uncertain what they should do when it came to any sort of sex education, and a climate of fear developed which denied help to young people who might have needed advice and support.

It has come to light recently that some schools still prefer to be tied to the outdated nonsense represented by Section 28,and this is a real cause for concern for organisations such as Stonewall.
I'm not suggesting that Thatcher and others advocated physical persecution for young gay people. If she had seen the sort of brutality that we are now seeing in Russia, with gay rights supporters being kicked half to death in the streetshe would probably have been shocked, but the parallel is not too fanciful. Plenty of misery was caused by Section 28.

Sometimes I would like to see some of the bigots magically mutated into temporary gays and set down in Russia or Uganda.It would be nice to ask them to report on their experiences -if they survived, that is.

[Mr Pee]

Sometimes I would like to see some of the bigots magically mutated into temporary gays and set down in Russia or Uganda.It would be nice to ask them to report on their experiences -if they survived, that is.

And of course there are bigots on both sides, although one side is much quicker to hurl the insult than the other.

[ahinton]

And of course there are bigots on both sides, although one side is much quicker to hurl the insult than the other.

Whether or not there may be any possible truth in the first of your premises here, the question of mistreatment of certain people under certain régimes pertains - and that does not involve any bigotry on their part or on the part of those who sympathise with them.