Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[Richard Barrett]

If I wore a t-shirt with the slogan 'Proud to be White' I'd probably get arrested in the UK on the grounds of race hatred. I'd undoubtedly deserve to be arrested on the grounds of stupidity alone.

Luckily for some there are no laws against stupidity.

But the thing is, if you wore a t-shirt with that slogan you would BE a racist, whatever the law says. Amateur51 has already tried to clarify such situations to you, but I'll give it another try. What does it mean to say you're "proud" to represent the constituency which is and has always been in the ascendancy, regarded as "normal", "as nature intended" and so on? Who would need to be convinced? Non-white people? They already know that they live in a society run by and for white people; rubbing it in can only be interpreted as an act of hatred.

What, on the other hand, does it mean to say you're "proud to be gay"? It means you're asserting the right to be treated EQUALLY on account of your sexuality. Not as superior, but as equal, which is presently not the case. It doesn't imply hatred of non-gay people, only that perhaps they'd like to think about why it is that they (you!) think of themselves as entitled to tell gay people they should stay out of sight where they belong. I hope that's clear but I already hear the groan of goalposts being pulled out of the ground ready for their inevitable repositioning...

[ahinton]

Yes, but where did I ever say 'all' the Russian people as you claimed, ahinton? Absolutely nowhere! When the British people voted to remain in the old Common Market it didn't mean that they 'all' did! But you know that anyway, don't you? You really must be much more careful with your 'quotations'.

Dear me! I wrote (but apparently you omitted to read and/or understand) above that "I did describe your allegation as "implying" reference to the entire Russian population whereas you omit to limit your references to a specific sector of that population (apart from your concessive reference to "at least the overwhelming majority"); which part of that do you still appear to have problems in understanding? For the avoidance of doubt, what I pointed out was that you did not specify that you meant other than the entire Russian population except when you conceded "at least the overwhelming majority" (which doesn't read like much of a concession anyway); what's more important, however, is that even "the overwhelming majority" of the adult Russian population did not - nor were they invited to - participate in the poll upon which you rely for your evidence and you appear not to know in any case how many Russians were so polled, what proportion of those polled expressed support for the proposed legislation, who funded the exercise ad whether or to what extent its findings were sought, collected and collated, analysed and published accurately. As to the accuracy of my quoting from you, I can do no better than cite, as you requested, the specific phrases to which I drew attention as posted earlier; if that's not good enough for you, I apologise.

What's more important again, however, is that, whatever any (non-)given number of Russians might think about the proposed legislation, it doesn't make it right, or welcome, or progressive, or socially acceptable and, worse still, it doesn't affect the fact that, as Richard Barrett pointed out, it is not a Russian-only matter, since homosexuals exist the world over.

I would never expect you to acknowledge that you were mistaken

I can neither account for nor influence your expectations, but I will openly acknowledge having been mistaken when I have been so which, in this instance, is demonstrably not the case.

I would hope that you will now cease the practice of inaccurately quoting from the posts of other members especially when the falsehoods have been demonstrably proven to be false!

I have not the ability to cease doing anything that I've not done previously (pace "have you stopped beating your wife yet"?) and, as you omit to identify any other members from whose posts you claim that I have misquoted, I cannot comment on that.

Finally, I do hope the Lord Provost of Glasgow has a nice wee chat and cup of Russian tea with her counterpart in Rostov-on-Don ... :whistle:

That will surely be up to her, though quite why you would hope this remains unclear...

[jean]

No, it appears to be you that has some difficulty in understanding the proposed laws. I don't have much of a problem in that regard...

No, scotty, you don't 'understand' them - you just think you do.

...though I have conceded the possible 'grey areas'.

It's all 'grey area', scotty.

The only thing you've been able to come up with that is not 'grey area' is advertising for a possible Gay Pride event!

I think the truth of the matter may be that you don't really WANT to understand the new laws because you simply hate them to death?

I hate them precisely because I understand the effects of legislation that is so difficult to interpret that people will avoid whole swathes of grey area for fear of prosecution.

[ahinton]

Luckily for some there are no laws against stupidity.

But the thing is, if you wore a t-shirt with that slogan you would BE a racist, whatever the law says. Amateur51 has already tried to clarify such situations to you, but I'll give it another try. What does it mean to say you're "proud" to represent the constituency which is and has always been in the ascendancy, regarded as "normal", "as nature intended" and so on? Who would need to be convinced? Non-white people? They already know that they live in a society run by and for white people; rubbing it in can only be interpreted as an act of hatred.

What, on the other hand, does it mean to say you're "proud to be gay"? It means you're asserting the right to be treated EQUALLY on account of your sexuality. Not as superior, but as equal, which is presently not the case. It doesn't imply hatred of non-gay people, only that perhaps they'd like to think about why it is that they (you!) think of themselves as entitled to tell gay people they should stay out of sight where they belong.

How eminently sensible! If homosexuals had always been treated equally and with equal respect, I suspect that it would never have occurred to most of them to express pride in their homosexuality.

I hope that's clear but I already hear the groan of goalposts being pulled out of the ground ready for their inevitable repositioning...

!!! - and presumably by at least one scottyCeltic player...

[ahinton]

No, scotty, you don't 'understand' them - you just think you do.


It's all 'grey area', scotty.

The only thing you've been able to come up with that is not 'grey area' is advertising for a possible Gay Pride event!


I hate them precisely because I understand the effects of legislation that is so difficult to interpret that people will avoid whole swathes of grey area for fear of prosecution.

That's another good point that it had not occured to me to mention myself - and any law that can reaonably be predicted as unpoliceable is hardly likely to remain on the statute books for long.

[jean]

On a lighter note...

RUSSIA BANS GAY IMAGERY

The Kremlin has confirmed that the following blatantly "butch" photos have been banned for fear they will inflame homosexual urges amongst Russia's youth...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-75cVnaltjl...of+fishing.jpghttp://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_g...650789312.JPEG

(Thanks to Private Eye)

'Grey area' or what?

[amateur51]

On a lighter note...

RUSSIA BANS GAY IMAGERY

The Kremlin has confirmed that the following blatantly "butch" photos have been banned for fear they will inflame homosexual urges amongst Russia's youth...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-75cVnaltjl...of+fishing.jpghttp://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_g...650789312.JPEG

(Thanks to Private Eye)

'Grey area' or what?

oh jean how marvellous - well done! :laugh:

[anotherbob]

Also courtesy of PE....
No words needed, (far too many here already)

http://www.intheshed.plus.com/stuff/yobs.jpg

[ahinton]

oh jean how marvellous - well done! :laugh:

Ah - the (in)famous "gay area"!...

[ahinton]

Also courtesy of PE....
No words needed, (far too many here already)

http://www.intheshed.plus.com/stuff/yobs.jpg

PE - or Pee? PE, of course!

[amateur51]

Also courtesy of PE....
No words needed, (far too many here already)

http://www.intheshed.plus.com/stuff/yobs.jpg

:laugh::laugh: brilliant

erm shocking.

Truly shocking.

Bad taste :winkeye:

[Serial_Apologist]

:laugh::laugh: brilliant

erm shocking.

Truly shocking.

Bad taste :winkeye:

Yes, we no longer know who to tell to go back to Russia - another grey area.

[Ferretfancy]

:laugh::laugh: brilliant

erm shocking.

Truly shocking.

Bad taste :winkeye:

I assume that you are renewing your subscription amsy ?

Do you remember the wonderful American documentary in which the director had found footage of same sex copulation through a large chunk of the animal kingdom?
He showed this on film to the truly awful homophobe Baroness Young, who accused him of cheating!

There were two Baroness Youngs at the time, a good one and a bad one, the baddy has since died.

[amateur51]

I assume that you are renewing your subscription amsy ?

Do you remember the wonderful American documentary in which the director had found footage of same sex copulation through a large chunk of the animal kingdom?
He showed this on film to the truly awful homophobe Baroness Young, who accused him of cheating!

There were two Baroness Youngs at the time, a good one and a bad one, the baddy has since died.

She has indeed Ferret and as when Thatcher died I intoned "rejoice, rejoice!"

I'd get these books for scotty & MrPee but I fear they might cause them both to self-immolate :whistle:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Biological-Exuberance-Homosexuality-Diversity-Stonewall/dp/031225377X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377104801&sr=1-1&keywords=Homosexuality+in+Animals

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Animal-Homosexuality-Perspective-Aldo-Poiani/dp/0521145147/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377104938&sr=1-2&keywords=Homosexuality+in+Animals

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Homosexual-Behaviour-Animals-Evolutionary-Perspective/dp/0521182301/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377104880&sr=1-4&keywords=Homosexuality+in+Animals

[scottycelt]

Luckily for some there are no laws against stupidity.

But the thing is, if you wore a t-shirt with that slogan you would BE a racist, whatever the law says.

Not necessarily ... I might just be stupid (oh, I know ..), or drunk. Thankfully, I wouldn't be relying on your sort of politically-influenced justice but our current justice system, for all its faults.

Amateur51 has already tried to clarify such situations to you ...

:biggrin: ... with a sense of forum decorum and respect for the House Rules do you very much mind if I refrain from making any sort of comment on the above? :laugh:

What does it mean to say you're "proud" to represent the constituency which is and has always been in the ascendancy, regarded as "normal", "as nature intended" and so on? Who would need to be convinced? Non-white people? They already know that they live in a society run by and for white people; rubbing it in can only be interpreted as an act of hatred.

I'm not aware I live in a society run by and for white people. I'm not race-conscious or have any political agenda. I treat people as people whether they are white, black, brown, red, yellow, purple, a deep kingfisher blue etc etc etc. I simply live in a society run by and for people. Unlike you I'm quite obviously colour-blind as well as stupid.

What, on the other hand, does it mean to say you're "proud to be gay"? It means you're asserting the right to be treated EQUALLY on account of your sexuality. Not as superior, but as equal, which is presently not the case. It doesn't imply hatred of non-gay people, only that perhaps they'd like to think about why it is that they (you!) think of themselves as entitled to tell gay people they should stay out of sight where they belong. I hope that's clear but I already hear the groan of goalposts being pulled out of the ground ready for their inevitable repositioning...

I have never used the word 'hatred'. Such extreme language belongs to yourself and others here. Oh, of course you'll now say that this thread is not all about me and you didn't actually say that I said it. But you hoped it would stick, didn't you? Up to your old tricks again!

What I did say is that the term Gay Pride clearly discriminates against (or at the very least automatically excludes from any personal 'pride') non-gays. In the same way as White Pride clearly discriminates against (or at the very least excludes) non-whites. In other words both heterosexuals and non-whites are clearly discriminated against because of sexual orientation on the one hand and colour of skin on the other.

You have admitted to double-standards in the two cases. You think the first is not discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation but the second is discrimination on the grounds of racism. I consider them both to be discriminatory. So I'm against both. That view also happens to be the logical and consistent one when dealing with both cases fairly and squarely. I can't really make things any clearer.

You see, no shifting of goalposts ... exactly the point I made at the very beginning!

But really is there any point in continuing with this? I'm not going to change what I consider to be "bleedin' obvious" just because a group of the usual forum suspects keep saying I (and it seems the overwhelming majority of Russians) 'don't understand' or are 'stupid', and words are twisted and no due retractions offered when alleged "quotes" are proven to be inaccurate?

I think some of we stupid old-fashioned folk understand the liberal Intelligentsia's aggressive (and sometimes rather less than honest) social agenda only too well, Mr Barrett ... :whistle: