Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[ahinton]

Lol! Meanwhile, back on planet Earth!!!!

Might that be the planet on which our distinguished member is pushing water uphill in an attempted gravity defying exercise?

[ahinton]

Well, you are completely wrong there. The "Festival of Remembrance" is the event that takes place in the Royal Albert Hall on the Saturday, immediately before Remembrance Sunday.

OK, fair enough; I did indicate that I was certain of every factual detail here and I appreciate your putting that straight.

That said, however, the term "Festival of Remembrance", notwithstanding the particlar event that it purportedly describes, has gained widespread credence as a descriptor of war remembrance events in their entirety and, however inauthentic you might consider that to be, the use of the word "Festival" in this context remains wholly inappropriate - not to say distasteful - in that a "festival" is indicative of celebration, not the quiet reflection of which you yourself write and certainly not a proper way in which to remember those who died on active service in and/or as victims of wars.

Which is indeed held on the Sunday immediately preceding 11/11, for reasons that I should have thought were bleedin' obvious- principally that it is much easier to pause for quiet reflection on a Sunday than it is on any other day, and that it is also the day when it will be easiest for many veterans and their families to attend. Which doesn't alter the fact that most shops and businesses still observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th.

Why? What makes you think that people can pause for quiet reflection for two minutes on a Sunday morning rather than at any other time? What makes you think that it's "easiest for many veterans and their families to attend" a remembrance service on a Sunday morning than at any other time? Leaving aside that there are no veterans of WWI and not many of WWII left in any case, on what grouds do you make the assumption that a Sunday morning will be free time for most of their families to allocate to attending remembrance services?

As you rightly observe, "most shops and businesses still observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th" in any case, though some do so at 11.00 on the Sunday before it.

Quite frankly, Al, if you don't even know the difference between the Festival of Remembrance and the Sunday event at the Cenotaph, you have no business commenting on the subject.

Leaving aside that I made no specific reference to either (my remarks being of more generalised intent), one might counter your remark by suggesting that if, among many so many other things, you didn't know what LGBT and LGBTI meant before being urged to look them up (which I am at least pleased to note that you have actually now done) and you have shown little sympathy for or interest in the victims of such phobias, you "have no business commenting on the subject" of this thread - at least not as frequently as you have done - but that's only my 'umble opinion...

[Beef Oven!]

Might that be the planet on which our distinguished member is pushing water uphill in an attempted gravity defying exercise?

It might be, I'm not telling. Keep on, go on, keep going. You may find a planet that suits.

[amateur51]

It's completely laughable to hold any sort of event that is intended to be attended, I assume, by a grwat number of people who are disabled by injury sustained in warfare and in advanced old age in a building as inaccessible as The Royal albert Hall.


That building is about pomp and ceremony, and I know several ex-service people who cannot attend because there are never enough spaces for those who wish to attend who are wheelchair-users. If the RAH ceremony is a remembrance of anything, it is of how far down the societal rung disabled people are.

[amateur51]

Which doesn't alter the fact that most shops and businesses still observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th.

Is there any evidence apart from the parochially anecdotal for this? Are check-out staff in Sainsbury or pickers in Amazon in Swansea allowed 2 minutes off, I wonder?

Quite frankly, Al, if you don't even know the difference between the Festival of Remembrance and the Sunday event at the Cenotaph, you have no business commenting on the subject.

The same could be said about your commenting on this thread, Mr Pee.You seem to revel in your ignorance about it and flaunt it with impunity.

So again, I ask - why are you so interested in this subject, Mr Pee?

[ahinton]

It might be, I'm not telling. Keep on, go on, keep going. You may find a planet that suits.

But I'm not looking for one! That said, however, anyone who is doing so will find them all on display by popping down to Schotts in Gt. Marlbourgh St. this coming Saturday at 18.30 to attend pianist/composer Dave Smith's giving the première of his piano arrangement of a certain work of around a century ago that was originally entitled Seven Pieces for Orchestra but which became much better known under the title that the composer decided to give it on second thoughts; sadly, I can't get to this and, given Mr Smith's interest in the music of Alkan, it's a nice coincidence that this performance (though nothing to do with Alkan as such) will take place on his 200th birthday.

[ahinton]

The same could be said about your commenting on this thread, Mr Pee.You seem to revel in your ignorance about it and flaunt it with impunity.

It already has been!

So again, I ask - why are you so interested in this subject, Mr Pee?

I think that most of us know the answer to that; his interest is not in the subject itself but in the opportunities that he perceives discussion of it to provide to him to make the kinds of remark for which we know him so well - and he has certainly not let us down on that front!

[Ferretfancy]

It already has been!


I think that most of us know the answer to that; his interest is not in the subject itself but in the opportunities that he perceives discussion of it to provide to him to make the kinds of remark for which we know him so well - and he has certainly not let us down on that front!

I know that amateur51 feels that Mr Pee's opinions should be challenged rather than ignored, and certainly if some of his more noxious statements were made in a public situation I would heartily agree. However, this forum is quite a small community, and most of us can see when a contributor is just trying to make mischief.
As you say, we have no real evidence that he really cares about any subject.

Why do we always rise to the bait? It would be easier to ignore all his contributions for a while at least, even if at the outset they might seem reasonable, since in the end he cannot resist the temptation to descend into malice.

I'm sorry, Mr Pee, but you are a nuisance and you deter others from engaging in real discussion. Please go away for a while and consider how tiresome you have become.

[ahinton]

I know that amateur51 feels that Mr Pee's opinions should be challenged rather than ignored, and certainly if some of his more noxious statements were made in a public situation I would heartily agree. However, this forum is quite a small community, and most of us can see when a contributor is just trying to make mischief.
As you say, we have no real evidence that he really cares about any subject.

I do think that this might be a little unfair; the fact that he obviously cares about this one only in order to use the thread about it as a vehicle for the expression of his contempt for it does not of itself necessarily signify that he cares about no subjects discussed on this forum.

Why do we always rise to the bait? It would be easier to ignore all his contributions for a while at least, even if at the outset they might seem reasonable, since in the end he cannot resist the temptation to descend into malice.

Expressing disagreement with or otherwise challenging anyone's expressed views here does not necessarily always involve "rising to the bait"; where it does do so, however, is whenever the views being disagreed with or otherwise challenged appear to have been expressed for the sake of winding people up and or causing offence per se rather than being genuinely held and expressed by someone seeking to participate in intelligent discussion.

I'm sorry, Mr Pee, but you are a nuisance and you deter others from engaging in real discussion. Please go away for a while and consider how tiresome you have become.

Let us try to ensure that others are not deterred "from engaging in real discussion" here by - er - well, by continuing said discussion!

[Ferretfancy]

I do think that this might be a little unfair; the fact that he obviously cares about this one only in order to use the thread about it as a vehicle for the expression of his contempt for it does not of itself necessarily signify that he cares about no subjects discussed on this forum.


Expressing disagreement with or otherwise challenging anyone's expressed views here does not necessarily always involve "rising to the bait"; where it does do so, however, is whenever the views being disagreed with or otherwise challenged appear to have been expressed for the sake of winding people up and or causing offence per se rather than being genuinely held and expressed by someone seeking to participate in intelligent discussion.


Let us try to ensure that others are not deterred "from engaging in real discussion" here by - er - well, by continuing said discussion!

Your comments are fair and reasonable. If I thought that Mr Pee really wanted to engage in sensible discussion I would accept them. I have in the past had a fair number of ding dongs with scottycelt, but I have always felt that while often disagreeing with him there was still a basis of understanding. I do not feel that with Mr Pee. I certainly dislike his views, but that's not the point, rather it's the constant feeling that he only wants to disrupt any sort of discourse and seems to take pride in doing so.

[Mr Pee]

It's completely laughable to hold any sort of event that is intended to be attended, I assume, by a grwat number of people who are disabled by injury sustained in warfare and in advanced old age in a building as inaccessible as The Royal albert Hall.


That building is about pomp and ceremony, and I know several ex-service people who cannot attend because there are never enough spaces for those who wish to attend who are wheelchair-users. If the RAH ceremony is a remembrance of anything, it is of how far down the societal rung disabled people are.

Good Lord. You really do exist in an alternate universe, don't you, not just on another planet.

[Mr Pee]

I know that amateur51 feels that Mr Pee's opinions should be challenged rather than ignored, and certainly if some of his more noxious statements were made in a public situation I would heartily agree. However, this forum is quite a small community, and most of us can see when a contributor is just trying to make mischief.
As you say, we have no real evidence that he really cares about any subject.

Why do we always rise to the bait? It would be easier to ignore all his contributions for a while at least, even if at the outset they might seem reasonable, since in the end he cannot resist the temptation to descend into malice.

I'm sorry, Mr Pee, but you are a nuisance and you deter others from engaging in real discussion. Please go away for a while and consider how tiresome you have become.

Well, I do care very deeply about the Remembrance issue. As I have said before, I have been on active military service in a war zone and have seen more at first hand on that subject than most or all of the contributors here.

I am subjected to endless ridicule and belittlement from Amateur and MrGG in particular. It is hardly surprising if I respond in kind. And as for descending into malice, perhaps I should remind you that GG told me to F***k off on these boards simply because I posted a passionate and heartfelt rebuttal of his initial post on the Remembrance thread.

The really tiresome thing is the way that any contributor here who does not adhere to the previaling -on these boards at least-Guardian inspired leftie view of the world is harangued and dismissed as irrelevant. Scotty is simply the latest such to have been hounded out by the mob, but he is not the first. I have no intention of following him.

[Mr Pee]

That said, however, the term "Festival of Remembrance", notwithstanding the particlar event that it purportedly describes, has gained widespread credence as a descriptor of war remembrance events in their entirety

No it hasn't. The "festival" refers specifically to the RAH event on the Saturday evening, and is so-called because the first part of the evening contains a Parade of Standards, military displays, and increasingly nowadays contributions from civilian artistes. It is, in the first half at least, a celebration of the camaradie and skills of the military, and to that extent "Festival" is a perfectly appropriate description. There are two performances, and both are, without fail, packed to the rafters with ex-Servicemen and women and their families, all of whom, including the Chelsea Pensioners, seem to manage to get in and out of the RAH without too much diffiuclty. The final part of the evening is a service of Remembrance, followed by thousands of poppies falling from the roof, a very solemn and moving few minutes. Nobody, apart from you, it seems, has associated the dignified and respectful events at the Cenotaph on Sunday with a "festival."

Why? What makes you think that people can pause for quiet reflection for two minutes on a Sunday morning rather than at any other time? What makes you think that it's "easiest for many veterans and their families to attend" a remembrance service on a Sunday morning than at any other time? Leaving aside that there are no veterans of WWI and not many of WWII left in any case, on what grouds do you make the assumption that a Sunday morning will be free time for most of their families to allocate to attending remembrance services?

There may not be many surviving veterans of the two world wars remaining- but you only need to watch the parade of veterans that follows the Cenotaph service to see that there are thousands marching by. Because, of course, it is not just veterans of the two World Wars who take part:- it is also their sons, daughters, veterans of the Falklands, Korea, and all the other conflicts that have involved British troops. It also includes those who have served and perhaps not even been to war, but who wish to acknowledge and honour those who did. Oh, and like it or not, Sunday is still the traditional day for religious observance. Also you seem to assume that those who attend Remembrance events are too decrepit or infirm to work for a living, and therefore would attend such an event on any day of the week. The vast majority still work and therfore yes, it is easier in most cases for them to put the time aside on a Sunday.

As you rightly observe, "most shops and businesses still observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th" in any case, though some do so at 11.00 on the Sunday before it.

Well your chum Am51 begs to differ, which just goes to show that he doesn't get out much, or at least not on November 11th. I was in M&S at 11am on the 11th, and they dimmed the lights and observed a two minute silence. Not a murmur was heard. And yes, many do so on Remembrance Sunday as well.

[amateur51]

Good Lord. You really do exist in an alternate universe, don't you, not just on another planet.

How come you're replying inanely to the serioius point made in my post then?

[amateur51]

Well your chum Am51 begs to differ, which just goes to show that he doesn't get out much, or at least not on November 11th. I was in M&S at 11am on the 11th, and they dimmed the lights and observed a two minute silence. Not a murmur was heard. And yes, many do so on Remembrance Sunday as well.

I merely asked if there was any evidence beyond the anecdotal, which you supplied, for your assertion.

There is not, clearly.

Any chance of getting back on-topic?