Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[ahinton]

In a few more posts and jean and ferni will probably have it that Scotty is a Nazi . . . and then they can huff and puff even more.

Is that really the best up with which you can come? One is unimpressed.

[scottycelt]

I for one still do not understand how Scottycelt, a self-proclaimed "internationalist", can object to people expressing and demonstrating solidarity with some who, through not fault of their own, are set to be discriminated against by changes in law in another country. Would he have supported the Nazi government's implementation of anti-semitic, anti-gypsy, anti-psychiatric disorder sufferer, anti-gay laws, on the grounds that it is fine for countries to pass whatever laws they wish, and no place for those ouside those countries to object or express solidarity with those about to suffer in consequence?

I don't remember ever 'proclaiming' to be an 'internationalist' but if others are intent on making things up as they go along why shouldn't you join in, I suppose. I think I've learned more about my imaginary self on this forum than I ever did in my wildest daydream!

The comparison with Nazi Germany is truly ridiculous. There is no harm in expressing solidarity with anyone anywhere, but that is quite different to meddling into the perfectly legitimate affairs of others.

Would you be so keen to support the right of Russians to demand that 'the change in law' in the UK to permit 'gay marriage' is also dropped, and those who oppose it could return to having 'equal rights' in areas like adoption? If not, why not?

Maybe if both laws were scrapped then that would be the best solution for both countries ? What do you think, S_A?

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Oh, certainly not. But it's on a par with:

You're not equating 'gay activists' with paedophiles, are you?

and a great deal better than

I cannot speak for others here but I feel confident that I am not the only member here for whom the only desired answers to questions are honest ones, whether or not I might agree with them; the problem with scotty's tends from time to time to be that his responses to questions are not answers at all but avoidance of answers (or is it evasion? - I'm never quite sure, although, as we know, avoidance is legal if not necessarily always moral whereas evasion is illegal). He doesn't always do this but, when he does, there is a big difference between that approach and actually giving straight (sorry!) answers and it is that which exercises some members here, not whether or not they like what's being written in the guise of answers.

[jean]

...the law is about promotion. Russian teachers telling kids that homosexuality should be on an equal social par with heterosexuality is another glaringly obvious one that would clearly breach the law...Would you have similar trouble when it comes to recognising the promotion of 'racism' in our own society, I wonder?

Yes, that really is moving towards an answer, scotty.

But to this:

In a few more posts and jean and ferni will probably have it that Scotty is a Nazi ...

I reply - absolutely not. You really haven't been paying attention.

It is clear from scotty's last post that he abhors racism. He is no Nazi.

But it's also clear that he thinks homosexuality - or at any rate putting homosexuality on an equal social par with heterosexuality - is up there with racism as something to be abhorred and shunned.

How to do this?

Be evasive when your children ask questions. Don't let let them find out that homosexual people even exist. Don't invite your homosexual friends to the house. Ostracise them. (Scotty may have more suggestions to offer).

Much safer that way.

[Beef Oven!]

Don't know if this has been covered, but what proportion of the human race is reckoned to be homosexual?

[Serial_Apologist]

The comparison with Nazi Germany is truly ridiculous.

There is no harm in expressing solidarity with anyone anywhere, but that is quite different to meddling into the perfectly legitimate affairs of others.

I don't see why: the Nazis would doubtless have objected that support for gays, jews etc., amounted to meddling into the perfectly legitimate affairs of themselves.

Would you be so keen to support the right of Russians to demand that 'the change in law' in the UK to permit 'gay marriage' is also dropped, and those who oppose it could return to having 'equal rights' in areas like adoption? If not, why not?

I wouldn't oppose their right to demonstrate to that end; but I would want to know what "equal rights" in areas like adoption really meant.

[Beef Oven!]

I don't see why: the Nazis would doubtless have objected that support for gays, jews etc., amounted to meddling into the perfectly legitimate affairs of themselves.



I wouldn't oppose their right to demonstrate to that end; but I would want to know what "equal rights" in areas like adoption really meant.

The real question is why did Godwin's Law take so long to kick in?

[Serial_Apologist]

The real question is why did Godwin's Law take so long to kick in?

Because you'd been away so long?

[ahinton]

The comparison with Nazi Germany is truly ridiculous. There is no harm in expressing solidarity with anyone anywhere, but that is quite different to meddling into the perfectly legitimate affairs of others.

OK, but in what ways are which people "meddling into [sic] the perfectly legitimate affairs of others" here, scotty? This is the part of your stance on the issue that you still don't make clear and, that being the case, it's far from obvious precisely what iit is to which you would and wouldn't object.

Would you be so keen to support the right of Russians to demand that 'the change in law' in the UK to permit 'gay marriage' is also dropped, and those who oppose it could return to having 'equal rights' in areas like adoption? If not, why not?

I wouldn't personally, no, but what I would support - or at the very least understand and accept - is boycotts by Russians of events in and other interactions with UK as gestures of protest if so they chose.

Maybe if both laws were scrapped then that would be the best solution for both countries ? What do you think, S_A?

While we await S_A's response to this, it's worth remembering that the same sex marriage laws have already been passed in UK whereas those in Russia that are under discussion here have not yet been entered onto the statute books but, as you yourself would surely agree, it would be up to the UK government to reverse the same sex marriage legislation (if it could do so) and the Russian government to abandon the implementation of its proposals. That said, the principal difference is that the proposed Russian laws will reduce the human rights of others whereas the one passed in UK enhances the human rights of some.

[Beef Oven!]

Because you'd been away so long?

Silly accusation. Be nice if you would provide some evidence, or were you merely being light-hearted?

[ahinton]

it's on a par with [jean's] "You're not equating 'gay activists' with paedophiles, are you?

It isn't, actually, not least because jean's question is in itself a perfectly reasonable one to which "no" is one possible answer.

and a great deal better than [my] "I cannot speak for others here but I feel confident that I am not the only member here for whom the only desired answers to questions are honest ones, whether or not I might agree with them; the problem with scotty's tends from time to time to be that his responses to questions are not answers at all but avoidance of answers (or is it evasion? - I'm never quite sure, although, as we know, avoidance is legal if not necessarily always moral whereas evasion is illegal). He doesn't always do this but, when he does, there is a big difference between that approach and actually giving straight (sorry!) answers and it is that which exercises some members here, not whether or not they like what's being written in the guise of answers."

Apart from the fact that your attempt to compare standards here is fruitless, it is clear that several people besides me have questioned scotty on his - er - occasional reticence in providing straight answers to clear questions.

Anyway, that's now the best up with which you can come, apparently; I am - er - interested to hear that.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

You really haven't been paying attention.

Oh yes I have miss.
Hinton: what straight questions? Or do you mean answering the constructed arguments/positions of others? I see SA is still digging!

[jean]

Not if you think I'm about to call scotty a Nazi you haven't.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Judging by the rest of this thread, it's only a matter of time.

[Serial_Apologist]

the principal difference is that the proposed Russian laws will reduce the human rights of others whereas the one passed in UK enhances the human rights of some.

Thanks for answering the question scotty asked me in your inimitably succint way, ahinton!