Musical Homophobia - or The Homophobia Histories

[teamsaint]

Just to say a big thank you to Pabmusic for his long and considered post# 204 which is well worth a read, and which touches on some fascinating areas .
i am sure that he gets to the heart of the matter regarding my question about sports and football, and that his musings point in very positive directions, and give much food for thought.
Thanks Pabs, much appreciated ,and very interesting indeed.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I went to a RC Secondary Comprehensive in North London between '74 and '81. I've often suggested that here was a school that failed to teach its pupils how to be heterosexual, never mind homosexual.

Having said that, in the library of the 6th Form Centre that was annexed to the school there was a library and therein I came across a copy of Joe Orton's 'Prick Up Your Ears'.

The reason it was in that library had nothing to do with propagating homosexuality, I'm sure. As I can recall there was little of a similar bent. It had been chosen to be on those shelves by someone in the local education office who had the good sense to recognise it as a perfect example of the form of individual account.

Now, I really don't know who said it, but I am reminded of the quotation which runs, '... in my house let there me many books, let they be of a thousand different colourings and, what is more, let them variously repute and dispute the picture of the world that surrounds us, so that each who enters in will have a range of perspectives by which to draw the picture of the world as they are inclined to see it, helped and informed by the books that they have pulled from these shelves.'


Now, I really can't remember just where I read that quote and I must apologise for paraphrasing it so imperfectly, but what it suggests is, to restrict information is to censor and to deprive of oxygen our living world.

There has to be a klaxon about gay rights and we have to adopt such slogans because to do otherwise is to leave people in the shadows.

To all the n'er sayers on here, I ought to say 'I disagree fundamentally with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it', except that sentiment is predicated on a notion of 'agreeing to disagree' and I've not had much sense of that going on here.

Live and let live.

I'm as happy as I can be to a pooftah, a queen, a shirt-lifter, or any such shabby expressions of detriment that can be thrown at me.

Whateever, I'm a man who loves men and from Brazil to Bromley, from Catford to Cairo, or from Romford to Russia, I will never be short of same-sex suitors who want to love me back.

[Tony Halstead]

Great post, Stillhomewardbound!
:ok:

[scottycelt]

Great post, Stillhomewardbound!
:ok:

I thought so too, for the most part. A reasonable, honest, inoffensive and refreshing post, willing to accept that people do have different and sincerely-held views on these matters. That's a huge advance on simply calling opponents 'bigots' in place of any sort of attempt to understand their point of view.

Certainly an advance on #180. I suppose we all come across as huge 'bores' to those who take a different view to our own?

However, it would be even more boring if all forum members constantly agreed with each other ... :whistle:

[Mr Pee]

Whateever, I'm a man who loves men and from Brazil to Bromley, from Catford to Cairo, or from Romford to Russia, I will never be short of same-sax suitors who want to love me back.

I always knew there was something queer about Saxophonists. :winkeye: :yikes:

[french frank]

However, it would be even more boring if all forum members constantly agreed with each other ... :whistle:

'The definition of 'to promote' includes 'to publicize ... so as to .. raise awareness'. A thread like this might well 'raise awareness' among young people and so fall foul of the Russian legislation because it gives a voice to gays, as gays.

[ahinton]

I always knew there was something queer about Saxophonists. :winkeye: :yikes:

Quite - which is why I've never written for more than one of the same kind of sax in any one piece...

[jean]

A reasonable, honest, inoffensive and refreshing post, willing to accept that people do have different and sincerely-held views on these matters.

But did you not recognise that when SHB writes

in the library of the 6th Form Centre that was annexed to the school there was a library and therein I came across a copy of Joe Orton's 'Prick Up Your Ears'.

The reason it was in that library had nothing to do with propagating homosexuality, I'm sure...

he's addressing the central topic of this thread.

For while Section 28 was in force, or the Russian legislation we're talking about, who would dare offer such a book to young people, for fear of falling foul of it?

[jean]

'The definition of 'to promote' includes 'to publicize ... so as to .. raise awareness'. A thread like this might well 'raise awareness' among young people and so fall foul of the Russian legislation because it gives a voice to gays, as gays.

Exactly.

It would fall into that huge grey area that scotty recognises, but doesn't think is really all that important.

[amateur51]

And of course there are bigots on both sides, although one side is much quicker to hurl the insult than the other.

Oh I see that you recognise your behaviour as that of a bigot, Mr Pee - how refreshing.

[amateur51]

I went to a RC Secondary Comprehensive in North London between '74 and '81. I've often suggested that here was a school that failed to teach its pupils how to be heterosexual, never mind homosexual.

Having said that, in the library of the 6th Form Centre that was annexed to the school there was a library and therein I came across a copy of Joe Orton's 'Prick Up Your Ears'.

The reason it was in that library had nothing to do with propagating homosexuality, I'm sure. As I can recall there was little of a similar bent. It had been chosen to be on those shelves by someone in the local education office who had the good sense to recognise it as a perfect example of the form of individual account.

Now, I really don't know who said it, but I am reminded of the quotation which runs, '... in my house let there me many books, let they be of a thousand different colourings and, what is more, let them variously repute and dispute the picture of the world that surrounds us, so that each who enters in will have the range of perspectives by which to draw the picture of the world as they are inclined to see it, helped and informed by the books that they have pulled from these shelves.'


Now, I really can't remember just where I read that quote and I must apologise for paraphrasing it so imperfectly, but what it suggests is, to restrict information, to censor and to deprive of oxygen our living world.

There has to be a klaxon about gay rights and we have to adopt such slogans because to do otherwise is to leave people in the shadows.

To all the n'er sayers on here, I ought to say 'I disagree fundamentally with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it', except that sentiment is predicated on a notion of 'agreeing to disagree' and I've not had much sense of that going on here.

I'm as happy as I can be to a pooftah, a queen, a shirt-lifter, or any such shabby expressions of detriment that can be thrown at me.

Whateever, I'm a man who loves men and from Brazil to Bromley, from Catford to Cairo, or from Romford to Russia, I will never be short of same-sax suitors who want to love me back.

Beautifully put, shb - bravo! :ok::hug:

[amateur51]

But did you not recognise that when SHB writes


he's addressing the central topic of this thread.

For while Section 28 was in force, or the Russian legislation we're talking about, who would dare offer such a book to young people, for fear of falling foul of it?

They were terrible times indeed, jean.

[Richard Barrett]

Most of us would recognise that the times of Section 28 were dark days for the free and unfettered development of young people, whatever direction(s) their sexuality ended up taking, which must surely be preferable to indoctrinating them with a partial view of what they are and could be - which doesn't stop people from realising their own nature, though it can make the process a lot more painful. Whatever "the Russian people" may think, anyone who can actually empathise with the psychological growing pains of others, let alone anyone who themselves was at the receiving end of this kind of prejudice, anywhere in the world, must surely regard this policy of Putin's as inhuman and will wish to oppose it in whatever small way they can.

[ahinton]

Most of us would recognise that the times of Section 28 were dark days for the free and unfettered development of young people, whatever direction(s) their sexuality ended up taking, which must surely be preferable to indoctrinating them with a partial view of what they are and could be - which doesn't stop people from realising their own nature, though it can make the process a lot more painful. Whatever "the Russian people" may think, anyone who can actually empathise with the psychological growing pains of others, let alone anyone who themselves was at the receiving end of this kind of prejudice, anywhere in the world, must surely regard this policy of Putin's as inhuman and will wish to oppose it in whatever small way they can.

I could not agree more; very sensitively and pragmatically but powerfully expressed, if I may say so.

[scottycelt]

Exactly.

It would fall into that huge grey area that scotty recognises, but doesn't think is really all that important.

Again, wholly inaccurate wording. I never at any time claimed that the 'grey areas' were not 'really all that important'.

What I said was that I acknowledged that 'grey areas' were bound to exist and the Russian courts would no doubt be busy in the future. There are always 'grey areas' in law and I'm sure the new Russian laws will be no exception. If proposed laws were scrubbed because of possible 'grey areas' we (and the Russians) would probably end up with no laws at all. It is up to judges in courts in Russia to interpret the laws. Their laws are a matter for them, not us, however daft and unworkable they might appear to some in West with obvious axes to grind, and who detest the new Russian laws in any case.

Exactly the same applies to legislation in the UK. The courts are well used to cases about 'unfair dismissal', 'equal opportunity' all that sort of thing where disputes about the laws exist. The laws somehow manage to survive despite 'grey areas'.

What I think (rightly or wrongly) is precisely what I've posted above and anything else ascribed to me must be the wholly imaginary thoughts of other members.