The Lib Dems Policy Paper for Transition to a Zero Carbon Britain

[Guest]

This is left wing stuff so it's bound to ooze intelligence. Presumably that polymath Ed Davey had a hand in some of this stuff.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/siteFiles/resources/docs/conference/2013%20Autumn/Policy/109%20-%20Green%20Growth%20and%20Green%20Jobs.pdf

Just a flavour: they've invented the smart kettle:

3.5.3 There is potential for smarter use of energy by households. Households can maximise the use of electricity by prioritising flexible, or semi-flexible, electricity demands according to urgency or by enabling non-time-sensitive equipment to switch on when power is available. High energy using appliances like cookers and kettles can be designed with two levels of heating elements to select, based on the best match to the power available.

And they're not shy of a little fascism here and there

4.2.5 Onshore wind, currently the cheapest renewable technology, could provide up to a fifth of UK electricity consumption. In public opinion surveys wind farms consistently attract support from around two-thirds of the public, but the 10 per cent or so who are consistently opposed are usually more vocal. Liberal Democrats would require onshore wind farms to help fund local energy efficiency measures, thus reducing householders’ energy bills. Liberal Democrats would support developers who seek punitive damages against councils who do not follow National Policy Guidelines in determining consents, for example, many (particularly Conservative) councils have adopted criteria (such as minimum separation distances from dwellings), in contravention of government planning policy.

[Richard Barrett]

This is left wing stuff

Hardly.

[Mr Pee]

This is left wing stuff so it's bound to ooze intelligence.

Oh how I wish we could use emoticons on this forum.......

[DracoM]

REf wind farms: maybe the Metro-planners might care to live where I do in one of the most intense area of onshore wind farms in the UK, which, unsurprisingly, is also an area of - or was - outstanding natural beauty, which beauty and wildness generates HUGE income and thus economic well-being from tourist incomers. Do these metro-geeks plan that into tier strategy? Namely how much local economies will be long term damaged by damage to the visual environment? It's money up here, mate, not some trendy Islington ideological ploy dreamed up on the back of an envelope. It's unquantifiable, BUT for us who live here, this environment IS our bread and butter, such that damaging it slowly leeches interest and thus income from it. Factor that in next time.

[amateur51]

Oh how I wish we could use emoticons on this forum.......

A fine example of oozing intelligence ;D

[Richard Barrett]

Could anyone possibly be so helpful as to justify the use of the term "leftwing" in relation to the Liberal Democrats? - perhaps some haven't noticed that for three years they've been in coalition with one of the most rightwing governments the UK has ever had, on whose policies they've mostly had little or no ameliorating effect.

[Serial_Apologist]

Could anyone possibly be so helpful as to justify the use of the term "leftwing" in relation to the Liberal Democrats? - perhaps some haven't noticed that for three years they've been in coalition with one of the most rightwing governments the UK has ever had, on whose policies they've mostly had little or no ameliorating effect.

Of course, those with extreme right wing views have had their chance for the past 30 + years of their friends being in charge of how politics and the economy are run; I think they're struggling now to find anything blameworthy they can pin on what's left of the left.

[Richard Barrett]

what's left of the left.

But is that now supposed to include the Lib Dems? Sorry if I'm veering offtopic here, but the subject of wind farms has been done to death...

[zoomy]

This is ridiculous nonsense from the Lib Dems, trying to appeal to the equally right wing Greens. If anyone really wants to help people afford their energy bills they would re-engineer the European energy market that currently favours the energy producers by keeping prices high (having to sell to the highest bidder in a Europe wide market etc). They should also re-nationalise the producers so we can have democratic control over the supply of electricity.

[Richard Barrett]

they would re-engineer the European energy market that currently favours the energy producers by keeping prices high (having to sell to the highest bidder in a Europe wide market etc). They should also re-nationalise the producers so we can have democratic control over the supply of electricity.

Quite so.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep & gas water railways &c ... the banks are already nationalised but they still owe rather a lot of £ eh ..... oh and yep the NHS and schools are botth sliping under the net to private profit ....

Lib dems are left wing ....omg not even ironic is it ....

btw if we had had an East German Socialist State in the UK from 79 on, staasi included, we would hardly be worse of than now, and possibly have a better haul of medals from the Olympics etc ....

[Mr Pee]

btw if we had had an East German Socialist State in the UK from 79 on, staasi included, we would hardly be worse of than now, and possibly have a better haul of medals from the Olympics etc ....

Please tell me that is a joke.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

This is ridiculous nonsense from the Lib Dems, trying to appeal to the equally right wing Greens. If anyone really wants to help people afford their energy bills they would re-engineer the European energy market that currently favours the energy producers by keeping prices high (having to sell to the highest bidder in a Europe wide market etc). They should also re-nationalise the producers so we can have democratic control over the supply of electricity.

It is nonsense, of course, so bad it's laughable. But I don't recognize your description of events in the UK. In the electricity market we're not selling to Europe, since we have only a weak interconnection with that market. At the turn of century that other, super-intelligent left-wing party decided to scrap the capacity market. So the Pool Rules were scrapped and we had NETA instead. As a result wholesale electricity prices fell, the nukes were bankrupt in all but name, and from that point on we've had little or no new capacity built, other than windmills. The generators aren't making money. The price rises we've seen are caused by rising gas prices, bank-rolling renewable generation, and paying for energy efficiency initiatives. The main crisis facing the generation industry is not decarbonisation, but 'merely' keeping the lights on. This Lib-Dem document doesn't even try to address that issue.

Renationalisation looks tempting. I think things were better when we had the CEGB. But then politicians of all flavours just left things well alone and hardly fiddled with the detail. As a result, the CEGB was able to fine-tune the generation mix to supply the island grid of the UK, and at the same time to gradually improve the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of the system. For the future I can't see politicians able to resist meddling.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

REf wind farms: maybe the Metro-planners might care to live where I do in one of the most intense area of onshore wind farms in the UK, which, unsurprisingly, is also an area of - or was - outstanding natural beauty, which beauty and wildness generates HUGE income and thus economic well-being from tourist incomers. Do these metro-geeks plan that into tier strategy? Namely how much local economies will be long term damaged by damage to the visual environment? It's money up here, mate, not some trendy Islington ideological ploy dreamed up on the back of an envelope. It's unquantifiable, BUT for us who live here, this environment IS our bread and butter, such that damaging it slowly leeches interest and thus income from it. Factor that in next time.

Let me guess; you live in either the Southern Uplands, or mid Wales?

[zoomy]

The capacity market does not work as it should because, for instance energy providers have got/or are close to getting government agreement on high future prices for nuclear energy before they invest - so much for a free and unfettered market in energy ! The energy companies compete only on costs, they do not compete on prices.