Wearing of Burka

[ahinton]

http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/201...ab-debate.html

Thanks for posting this, Mr Pee, for all its increasingly irritating "yebbuts" - but what is your considered view on the unenforced wearing of this garment in UK in various contexts and circumstances (apart from the question of women being expected to have to drop it for at least long enough in order to be identified and cross-questioned in a UK court of law)?

[jean]

Thanks for posting this, Mr Pee, for all its increasingly irritating "yebbuts"

They're the whole point. Ludicrous to be irritated by them.

Very good piece.

And [pedantry alert] I'm pleased to see this thread has started talking about the niqab rather than the burkha, a garment which hardly any but Afghan women wear.

[Beef Oven!]

Ah, there's a nice reasoned response to a perfectly reasonable argument.

How about this?

http://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2013/09/yes-but-niqab-debate.html

And do try to rise above kindergarten level.

Very interesting piece Mr Pee. Balanced with a lot to think about.

As we've noted, not an easy subject.

Many thanks for posting.

[teamsaint]

Lectures from Tory MPs about "Feminism" .


Not really to be taken seriously.

But if she REALLY wants to deal with issues like this, perhaps bringing pressure to bear on regimes like Saudi Arabia, instead of mainly being interested in propping them up so that we can do oil and arms deals, would be a more comprehensive way of dealing with them.

Appalling autocratic/theocratic regimes are surely the problem, the big picture?

[MrGongGong]

Lectures from Tory MPs about "Feminism" .

Well , quite ............ and what kind of 'Feminism' has this as a serious suggestion ?

"it is time for politicians to stop delegating this to individual institutions as a minor matter of dress code and instead set clear national guidance."

Absolutely , can't have the poor dears deciding what to wear themselves , can we , just think what it might lead to !

[Beef Oven!]

"it is time for politicians to stop delegating this to individual institutions as a minor matter of dress code and instead set clear national guidance."

Absolutely , can't have the poor dears deciding what to wear themselves , can we , just think what it might lead to !

You've misunderstood what that means. I really do think you'd do better to stick with things you've already got a grip of and when you do venture into new things, start with less complicated matters ;-)

[scottycelt]

This has nothing to do with 'feminism'! In any case feminists only represent a very small percentage of 'the people'. Why should they dictate to the rest of society any more than a Moslem or Christian minority? Of course feminists themselves may well be divided on the issue!

It is about whether anyone, male or female, should be allowed to cover their face in a secular court, even for religious custom reasons.

Of course they shouldn't, everyone should be expected to abide by the same rules. Why should any religious custom (after all, that's all it is) be exempted when it's clearly not appropriate in the pursuit of justice?

I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as the French, banning a face-cover in all public places ... though their concerns over security are understandable ... but certainly a court of law should be entirely in-discriminatory and seen to be open and fair.

[MrGongGong]

You've misunderstood what that means. I really do think you'd do better to stick with things you've already got a grip of and when you do venture into new things, start with less complicated matters ;-)

HA HA HA HA
So what does it mean ? apart from she thinks that politicians should set "national guidance" which is bonkers

. Why should any religious custom (after all, that's all it is) be exempted when it's clearly not appropriate in the pursuit of justice?

Are you feeling OK Scotty ? I'm a bit worried as you seem to be arguing for the opposite of what you want for the followers of beardyman (NOT the beatboxer !)

[scottycelt]

Are you feeling OK Scotty ? I'm a bit worried as you seem to be arguing for the opposite of what you want for the followers of beardyman (NOT the beatboxer !)

Yes, I'm feeling just fine, how are you, Mr GG? Well and truly back into the forum sharp end, I see!

I'm not very sure what the rest of your post actually means but, if it's what I think it might mean, I've never argued any group of 'followers' should be exempt from the open and equitable pursuit of justice in a secular court.

Quite the contrary, if you re-read my earlier posts on this thread ... of course, I could well be now rather more credibly accused of repetitiveness, to which I humbly apologise!

[MrGongGong]

I'm not very sure what the rest of your post actually means but, if it's what I think it might mean, I've never argued any group of 'followers' should be exempt from the open and equitable pursuit of justice in a secular court.

So if EVERYONE is to have the same law then if I decide to (for example) open a B&B ............ you get the point ?

[Beef Oven!]

So what does it mean ? apart from she thinks that politicians should set "national guidance"

It makes sense to set national guidance on certain things. Things that it would not be in the common good for there to be local, regional, institutional variances on. We'd have chaos, when what we need is a society tending to order.

[Richard Barrett]

So this Telegraph article is "balanced", is it? Firstly, as teamsaint says, a lecture on feminism from a Tory MP is hardly to be taken seriously. And then: "once the niqab becomes an accepted norm" - where is the evidence that this is even a vague possibility on the horizon? Less than 5% of the population of the UK is Muslim, and of this 5% a tiny proportion are wearing the niqab. Why is this phenomenon inflated into a matter for "national debate" and front-page news? One might almost suspect it was in order to foment Islamophobia and the racism lurking behind it.

[Resurrection Man]

....One might almost suspect it was in order to foment Islamophobia and the racism lurking behind it.

Islam is a religion. You can't be racist about a religion.

[anotherbob]

Where do we stand on the wearing of niqabs on identity parades?

[MrGongGong]

It makes sense to set national guidance on certain things. .

Fair enough
lets all decide to drive on the left hand side of the road

but what people wear of their own choice ?

Why are people so frightened of "chaos" ?
Sure, if i decide to drive my car on the other side for a change that's not a good idea BUT the assumption that somehow we need more "order" , (which usually means something imposed from outside) regardless of the context is a bit daft IMV