Wearing of Burka

[jean]

The striking thing about the above is that the two women you mention you also describe as 'happy bunnies'. So you would really have preferred them to be unhappy?

No. But a bunny's capacity for happiness is limited by the fact that they have merely a bunny's sensibilities; homo sapiens is capable of happiness a mere bunny could not comprehend, though we are capable of greater misery also.

And you know yourself, scotty, that happiness arrived at outside the bosom of Mother Church is a poor thing indeed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And you know yourself, scotty, that happiness arrived at outside the bosom of Mother Church is a poor thing indeed.

I'll settle for the marijuana, if that's alright with you.

[Flosshilde]

No. But a bunny's capacity for happiness is limited by the fact that they have merely a bunny's sensibilities; homo sapiens is capable of happiness a mere bunny could not comprehend, though we are capable of greater misery also.

And you know yourself, scotty, that happiness arrived at outside the bosom of Mother Church is a poor thing indeed.

Isn't it rather indelicate to be talking about Mother Church's bosoms (not to mention a trifle Oedipal)?

[french frank]

The striking thing about the above is that the two women you mention you also describe as 'happy bunnies'. So you would really have preferred them to be unhappy?[/URL]

Women would appear to be just as diverse as men.

Which, if anything at all does, should persuade you that there aren't just the two options: live as I've described and be happy; or live in some sort of alternative way and be unhappy. Many women would be unhappy living in that subservient way and happy doing something else.

And happiness may be only temporary: the Catholic lady was very happy that her eldest child, a son, became a priest. She was less happy when he gave up being a priest to get married, having failed to get the necessary dispensation before doing so. But she was happy again when they had two lovely children. It's difficult to see how 'happiness' can be any sort of life 'goal'.

[clive heath]

"False Consciousness" is just one group of peoples way of disparaging the choices made by other equally valid humans whether more or less intelligent. It falls into the category of ad hominem argument i.e. futile and defeatist.

p.s. I recently read "Celia", set in Bristol, which I just discovered to be described as "A Harshly Feminine Novel: E. H. Young's Celia" ..mmmm.. maybe!

[jean]

Spoilsport.

[Frances_iom]

...It's difficult to see how 'happiness' can be any sort of life 'goal'.

- since the root of 'happiness' (see OED) lies in luck + chance rather than any self determined state of affairs it doesn't seem to be a goal driven state

[Serial_Apologist]

"False Consciousness" is just one group of peoples way of disparaging the choices made by other equally valid humans whether more or less intelligent. It falls into the category of ad hominem argument i.e. futile and defeatist.

Whereas persuading people to acquire consumer undurables falls into the category of "social engineering".

[jean]

- since the root of 'happiness' (see OED) lies in luck + chance rather than any self determined state of affairs it doesn't seem to be a goal driven state

Etymology isn't everything.

...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...

[clive heath]

Was I persuading people to acquire consumer undurables? I'm not sure I even know what they are, unless a pint of Wadworth's 6X consumed earlier today beside the Kennet and Avon Canal counts.

[scottycelt]

Which, if anything at all does, should persuade you that there aren't just the two options: live as I've described and be happy; or live in some sort of alternative way and be unhappy. Many women would be unhappy living in that subservient way and happy doing something else.

And happiness may be only temporary: the Catholic lady was very happy that her eldest child, a son, became a priest. She was less happy when he gave up being a priest to get married, having failed to get the necessary dispensation before doing so. But she was happy again when they had two lovely children. It's difficult to see how 'happiness' can be any sort of life 'goal'.

Well it wasn't me who seemed to suggest it was somehow unworthy for a woman not to be a feminist! I'm not saying what a woman should do with her life, I'm simply saying it's entirely up to her without pressure from men or other women!

I find your last sentence intriguing. Are you saying one should set oneself a goal in life which one suspects might result in personal unhappiness?

You seem to be quite unhappy that the 'Catholic lady' recovered her own happiness despite her obvious setbacks and disappointments in life. After all she herself just wanted her son to be happy which I'd imagine is quite a common factor in any mother-son relationship. On the other hand it would be naive to think that every show of 'happiness' is necessarily genuine! Only the person concerned really knows whether they are truly happy or not, nobody else.

Still, give me any sort of 'happiness' over 'misery' any day!

[Frances_iom]

Etymology isn't everything.

...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...

sorry it is here - that use of happiness is exactly the pursuit of luck/chance rather than a decree driven state - nothing to do with mind wrecking drugs (as per one poster) or this week's fashions

[jean]

I do find that a very strange claim.

In the OED (since you invite me to look at it!) I find:

2. a. The state of pleasurable content of mind, which results from success or the attainment of what is considered good.

That suggests to me something eminently pursuable. Among the citations is this:

1734 Pope Essay on Man iv. 1 O Happiness! our Being's End and Aim! Good, Pleasure, Ease, Content! whate'er thy name.

[Pabmusic]

No. But a bunny's capacity for happiness is limited by the fact that they have merely a bunny's sensibilities; homo sapiens is capable of happiness a mere bunny could not comprehend, though we are capable of greater misery also...

Although this is probably true enough, we don't actually know that it is. A bunny's capacity to feel pain, for instance, could be identical to - or even greater than - our own. The processing power of its brain is undoubtedly less that ours, but parts of it (such as that which processes pain) might be more developed.

[Pabmusic]

...It's difficult to see how 'happiness' can be any sort of life 'goal'.

I quite like the expression 'well being' (or wellbeing or well-being) which encompasses things that ought to bring happiness to most people.