Wearing of Burka

[eighthobstruction]

No substitute at all! That's one reason why I never use them [emotions?].

....<suitable humourous emoticon....>

[ahinton]

....<suitable humourous emoticon....>

Point taken - except, perhaps, for the matter of whether one can actually "use" emotions" whereas one certainly can use - or, as in my case, decline to use - emoticons!

[eighthobstruction]

Well you've rationed the use of the traditional full stop....so indeed such new fangelled things (emoticons) must have been easy....

.....though in the way some people use them (emoticons)....they might just as well be called enmitycons [ho ho]

....<humourous fun poking lacking sarcasm>

[ahinton]

Well you've rationed the use of the traditional full stop....so indeed such new fangelled things (emoticons) must have been easy....

I'm not sure where or how I've rationed any such thing, actually but, whether or not emoticons are easy (to "use"), I don't care to use them and find them entirely superfluous.

.....though in the way some people use them (emoticons)....they might just as well be called enmitycons [ho ho]

....<humourous fun poking lacking sarcasm>

Ho ho indeed! Perhaps others might even consider their possible potential for concealing what they actually think - in which case they might even be thought of as typists' niqabs (sorry to return to the subject, but...)

[amateur51]

You've misunderstood what that means. I really do think you'd do better to stick with things you've already got a grip of and when you do venture into new things, start with less complicated matters ;-)

Two or three such folk? May I humbly and sincerely ask you give some serious thought to laying of presumptuous, self-important, patronising, invidious and condescending posts? It does neither your impeccable logic or your closely organised arguments any favours.

Out of the mouths ...

[Beef Oven!]

One tries to do one's best!


Sometimes, one's best risks not being good enough!


That's an interesting example, to be sure. It's niqab and not burq'a, as Richard Barrett and others have noted, but your point is still valid, of course. I think that the only way around this would need to relate to what Imentioned earlier about the religious situation and the secular situation. The decision to attend one's GP is not a religious one but is made for medical reasons. The appointment will thus have been made for secular purposes and the doctor, however she may be dressed, would be on duty to attend to her patients' medical needs and not their religious ones; she would also be aware that her patients would not necessarily all share her religious belief or subscribe to the traditions and customs of her religion and, as a medical professional rather than a religious one, she should be prepared to set aside any overt manifestations of her religion when her patients are consulting her. I have no idea what NHS would have to say about such a situation or whether the NHS GP code of practice makes any kind of provision for a situation such as you describe here, but I would have thought that the maintenance of proper standards of professionalism alone would be sufficient to prompt the GP herself to desist from wearing something that might make some patients - especially some non-Muslim ones - feel more unconfortable than they would were she instead wearing an item of jewelley including a cross, for example - and by discomfort here I refer specifically to the garment hiding her face, which a cross would not do. A patient / GP consultation is a one-to-one matter, after all. In the end, a patient cannot be forced to see through a GP appointment if they're not happy to do so and, if another GP was not present at the time and if the niqab-wearing GP refused to remove that garment, that patient would need to make another appointment with a GP who'd not be wearing one and might then feel inclined to complain about the inconvenience caused, although I've no idea how such a complaint might proceed in practice.

I'm still stumped. I need to think longer on this!

Among other things, I need to ponder its reconciliation with the Hippocratic Oath and Declaration Of Geneva.

[scottycelt]

It's niqab and not burq'a, as Richard Barrett and others have noted ...

Hmmmm ... how come the sudden interest in strict meaning of words?

However, it may well be advisable that any ban on one should equally apply to the other ...

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa&h=1080&w=720&sz=139&tbnid=68dllDOwyUN1oM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=72&zoom=1&usg=__Xp8MsWwdF5s1b5smNCqPZbmify8=&docid=O4vRYTTCw4UcrM&sa=X&ei=4BE7UuDZNImrhQeioIDwDg&sqi=2&ved=0CDoQ9QEwAQ

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Niqab.jpg&imgrefurl=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niqab&h=1772&w=2302&sz=527&tbnid=xs0V-HGf15B0OM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=117&zoom=1&usg=__qd3MeR1F32JlBTbhAFNchbyZ2Gs=&docid=RYOGp76Xr-3TXM&sa=X&ei=whE7UrK_MOaY1AXp6YHwAw&ved=0CEoQ9QEwBA

[jean]

Hmmmm ... how come the sudden interest in strict meaning of words?

However, it may well be advisable that any ban on one should equally apply to the other ...

Well of course! And vice versa.

Though arguably a woman can be seen, and herself sees, less in a burqa than in a niqab, as your illustrations show.

(As far as I'm concerned it's not a sudden interest. I'm always irritated when people confuse the two, because it means they're not clear what it is they're talking about. And the analogy you want me to draw with the word marriage doesn't really work, though it would take me too long to explain why.)

.

[eighthobstruction]

Very good (considering it was 5-8mins )....on PM about 1710 hrs....a discussion with good information and insight....

....the young nurse sounded a lovely person but had missed two main points when considering her point of view....A) she said it was not important for people to see face or lips when being given instruction - completely forgetting people lip read to overcome deafness (myself for instance and my son) B) she said if she had to give bad news she would ask another nurse to do it - ignoring staff structures/deficiencies but more importantly that keyworker/nurse procedures are now important on the ward....

....and while the health professional dismissed Hygiene as a reason....I would like to reassert it....(have you ever walked around with egg on your tie all day but not seen that till you have taken it off)

[jean]

Very good (considering it was 5-8mins )....on PM about 1710 hrs....a discussion with good information and insight....

Yes, I heard that. I thought this was interesting:

B) she said if she had to give bad news she would ask another nurse to do it ...

Which made it clear that she realised she was not communicating properly when veiled.

Someone listening with me pointed out that often a smile in passing is the best way for a nurse to keep contact with patients she's not dealing with directly at the time.

[ahinton]

Hmmmm ... how come the sudden interest in strict meaning of words?

How come you think that it's "sudden"? This, in any case, is more about using the correct word rather than what this or that word means.

[eighthobstruction]

yes jean very true....

[amateur51]

yes jean very true....

I've been lip-reading since I was about 5 and it's essential for me even though I have digital hearing aids. And I certainly agree about the smile - it's essential, again.

[jean]

A doctor on the R4 6 o'clock News said just now that though she usually wore the veil, she removed it when treating patients.

[MrGongGong]

There is a more sense from some of these folk (as in jean's post) than the ignorant comments that seem to come from many other folks.