Damascus gas attack - who did it and how will the west spin it ?

[ahinton]

Sued's Corner could make someone a bit of money, maybe...

As long as they didn't deliberately misspell it "Saud" for the edition concerned...

[zoomy]

Genocide has now entered the western lexicon on syria.

[Resurrection Man]

Well, first of all, I wouldn't go walking down there in the first place. Then again I might just use a pepper spray on him; you know, chemical weapons and all that. More seriously, however, at least I would know who was doing the hitting. That said, what happens between two adults in a city high street is hardly to be considered on the same level as a government taking its taxpayer funded armed forces - in possible disregard for the majority wish of its electorate - en masse into another country to attempt to deal with something that it has not started and when it has not itself been the victim of aggression on the part of that country.

Ah well, the 'cop-out' reply was to be expected. I did have a little bet with myself that this would be the case. Maybe you should continue to sit back comfortably,

[Resurrection Man]

.....
....; for that, RM deserves all due credit.

I thank you for that. If you look at the exact wording of the OP and confirmed by subsequent posts by the OP you will see that, in fact, he isn't asking questions but stating (and without any evidence to back up the statement) that it was not Assad's forces but the rebels.

[Resurrection Man]

Genocide has now entered the western lexicon on syria.

And may we have your evidence, please to support your statement that it was the rebels who carried out the chemical attack.

Or has this entire thread been simply a smoking gun instigated by you - a trap into which the usual suspects have fallen ?

[ahinton]

Ah well, the 'cop-out' reply was to be expected. I did have a little bet with myself that this would be the case. Maybe you should continue to sit back comfortably,

It wasn't a "cop-out" reply and I have no interest in speculating on your expectations in any case; if you did indeed have such a bet, you'd therefore have lost it. One cannot continue to do something that one is not doing in the first place and I am certainly far from copmfortable abouot any of this. The only part of your post that you have correct is the sitting bit but then I imaine that most of us sit when typing.

[ahinton]

I thank you for that. If you look at the exact wording of the OP and confirmed by subsequent posts by the OP you will see that, in fact, he isn't asking questions but stating (and without any evidence to back up the statement) that it was not Assad's forces but the rebels.

Indeed, but what I took from the opening salvo and your response thereto is that (a) until there is hard and incontrovertible evidence as to the identity of the culprit/s in that atrocity, it is important not to accuse any one faction and (b) that there are several possibilities, of which the Assad régime only seems to be the most likely. That said, the most problematic aspect of this entire affair is that it's not in any case a simple matter of Assad régime good, everyone else (the so-called "rebels", whether they are so or not) bad. I drew attention to the Scandinavian piece linked upthread (I can't immediately find it now) - a fine piece of work that serves well to illustrate the sheer complexity of the situation, not least in the aspect of factions within Syria that are wholly or partly sponsored by outside interests; from this, it becomes clear that there are many conflicting agendas being promoted and followed in Syria and that the situation there is far from blakc and white. I noted from it that, whilst the notion of one's enemy's enemy being one's friend is dangerous enough, it becomes increasingly so when it is ever more difficult even to identify with certainty who one's enemy's enemy is.

[MrGongGong]

I noted from it that, whilst the notion of one's enemy's enemy being one's friend is dangerous enough, it becomes increasingly so when it is ever more difficult even to identify with certainty who one's enemy's enemy is.

Don't be daft "Hinton" (is that "Hinton Major" ? or "Minor" or even "Hexatonic" ? ......... is it just me or is calling people by their surnames just bloody rude ?) it's obvious who the goodies and baddies are........ now stop wingeing and join Team America you know it can't possibly go wrong !

[Beef Oven!]

Don't be daft "Hinton" (is that "Hinton Major" ? or "Minor" or even "Hexatonic" ? ......... is it just me or is calling people by their surnames just bloody rude ?) it's obvious who the goodies and baddies are........ now stop wingeing and join Team America you know it can't possibly go wrong !

Many of us were called by our surnames at school, I was from the age of 6. One man's rude is another's convention.

[french frank]

The discussion, with events, might move on. The UN has said: "It's the biggest displacement crisis of all time." Two million refugees have fled Syria, most to Lebanon, the smallest neighbour and least able to cope. This is surely where the international humanitarian community can - and will - step in.

[ahinton]

Don't be daft "Hinton" (is that "Hinton Major" ? or "Minor" or even "Hexatonic" ? .........

Don't ask me; I'd be the last person to (want to) know!

is it just me or is calling people by their surnames just bloody rude ?)

It might just be down to the callers having forgotten the first name - you never known...

it's obvious who the goodies and baddies are........ now stop wingeing and join Team America you know it can't possibly go wrong !

!!!

That said, there's plenty of evidence around to suggest that "Team America" is as wary of full scale military intervention in Syria as "Team GB" is...

[ahinton]

The discussion, with events, might move on. The UN has said: "It's the biggest displacement crisis of all time." Two million refugees have fled Syria, most to Lebanon, the smallest neighbour and least able to cope. This is surely where the international humanitarian community can - and will - step in.

Of course - or at least one might hope so; this is the only sensible kind of intervention that could stand some chance of success in benefitting the displaced and the otherwise victimised.

[JimD]

I wonder whether many would agree that, rather than being diminished by last week's Parliamentary vote, as some have claimed, in the light of developments in other countries the UK and its Parliament have in fact underlined their status as a functioning democracy which leads. Of course I know that some on these boards would rather gnaw through their arms than say anything positive about the UK or other 'Western' 'liberal' 'democracies'. Also that 'we' will sometimes tie our own hands when dealing with those states where politicians have no such constraints in their often-cynical foreign policy gaming. But perhaps it is a price worth paying.

[ahinton]

I wonder whether many would agree that, rather than being diminished by last week's Parliamentary vote, as some have claimed, the UK and its Parliament have in fact underlined their status as a functioning democracy. Of course I know that some on these boards would rather gnaw through their arm than say anything positive about the UK or other 'Western' 'liberal' 'democracies'. Also that 'we' will sometimes tie our own hands when dealing with those states where politicians have no such constraints in their often-cynical foreign policy gaming. But perhaps it is a price worth paying.

Whilst I may be one of those who on occasion shares a degree of cynicism about the conduct and practice of UK and other Western 'liberal' 'democracies', I for one would indeed subscribe to your premise here. For all that polls, however well prepared, extensive, efficiently conducted and accurately reported, can never be a guarantee of general public opinion (as I noted with the recent Russian one mentioned on these boards, although I harbour grave reservations as to which if any of those caveats would have applied to that), there does seem to be sufficient evidence that, had the UK government taken the opposite decision, it would have done so against the wishes of the majority of the electorate; there seems to be similar reticence, doubts and fears among the America electorate too, a noticeable proportion of which appears to have little if any appetite for yet more warmongering, especially in the Middle East and where so many uncertainties hang over the particular form that any such intervention might take.

[zoomy]

I wonder whether many would agree that, rather than being diminished by last week's Parliamentary vote, as some have claimed, in the light of developments in other countries the UK and its Parliament have in fact underlined their status as a functioning democracy which leads. Of course I know that some on these boards would rather gnaw through their arms than say anything positive about the UK or other 'Western' 'liberal' 'democracies'.

I agree, jim. Last week's vote in the uk parliament was sophisticated and elegant.