Pope Francis and Gay People

[ahinton]

What has not yet been discussed in this thread - unless I have missed it - is the position of the "gay lobby" in the Vatican in all this. A number of reports have started that Pope Francis has acknowledged the existence of such a "lobby," but whether He approves of it or does not is not entirely clear to me from anything I have read. Some reports say He disapproves, others say He approves. Some reports say there is a "scandal" involving homo-sexualistic blackmail, other reports that it somehow led to Benedict's resignation, and yet others say that there is no such "lobby" at all. A "gay lobby" as such, pure and simple, is in fact something that ought to be encouraged is it not?

It shouldn't have to be encouraged because it shouldn't need encouragement, but the history of the Church in such matters offers little confidence in the possibility that the issue of its attitude towards homosexuals both within and outside it is likely to change without one. The truth will out - IF it will. That said, the Church would be seen to shoot itself in the foot if it substantially modifies its attitudes towards males homosexuals within and outside it without doing the same for female ones. If a woman, regardless of her sexual preference, is possessed of the intellectual and leadership strength, the ability to inspire confidence and, above all, the calling to be a priest or even of higher office within the Church, she should not be denied proper opportunity to pursue her aspirations in that regard; the same applies in the case of CofE. It would be both a great pity and a sadly lost opportunity - not to say a Christian own goal - were a far wider acceptance by the Church of equality and respect for male homosexuals not to go hand in hand with due recognition of the rôles of and respect for women. I have no doubt that you disagree with this last, but I do not see what's Christian or credible about resolving just one part of a major problem, however large that part is.

[Ferretfancy]

To misquote Queen Victoria, I don't mind what Popes do, as long as they don't do it in the street and scare the horses.

[Barbirollians]

This forum is plainly a ghetto - full of all these abnormal people who love classical music when if they were normal they would all be listening to Robin Thicke , Lady Gaga or One Direction !

[ahinton]

This forum is plainly a ghetto - full of all these abnormal people who love classical music when if they were normal they would all be listening to Robin Thicke , Lady Gaga or One Direction !

Yes, except that you left out Godowsky, Pérotin and Richard Barrett!

[pilamenon]

This forum is plainly a ghetto - full of all these abnormal people who love classical music when if they were normal they would all be listening to Robin Thicke , Lady Gaga or One Direction !

But the two aren't mutually exclusive - I love classical music and Robin Thicke (or at least his most recent hit, Blurred Lines).

[pilamenon]

I agree - but I don't think it's acceptable, either, to hint darkly that one or two posters behave in some unacceptable way, leaving everyone to guess who they might be, or even agonise over whether they're one of them.

What do you mean? I thought it was obvious whose post I was responding to, as I quoted it.

[jean]

I'm sorry, it seems I wasn't clear - I was agreeing with you about not naming names, but for the rest I was referring to other posts on this thread which I supposed posters would have seen:

...entirely thanks to the repeated input of one or two members.

I think there are one or two posters who mention their homosexuality at every possible opportunity...

I should have named names.

[Mr Pee]

I'm sorry, it seems I wasn't clear - I was agreeing with you about not naming names, but for the rest I was referring to other posts on this thread which I supposed posters would have seen:
I should have named names.

Perhaps I should have done the same, then, rather than hinting

"darkly'

as you put it. Although what you are implying by the use of that word, I have no idea.

I think it is perfectly obvious to whom I refer. You don't have to be Sherlock to work it out.

[jean]

Perhaps I should have done the same, then...

If you could do it with the appropriate references, I'd be grateful.

[pilamenon]

Sorry, this is my fault for misunderstanding Jean's post. Can't we leave it at that?

[scottycelt]

But it's perfectly reasonable for those posters who are married to mention their spouse 'at every possible opportunity' (Scotty is particularly notable in this respect)?

You don't half post some utter rubbish, Flossie. No wonder they have named the latest destructive hurricane after you.

I can't remember ever bringing my wife into any topic on this Forum. Maybe your memory has some other-worldly powers?

In fact the only time she ever seems to be mentioned here is through occasional disparaging remarks by yourself and Amateur51.

So please leave my wife out of this. She has absolutely nothing to do with this Forum and, in any case, believes we're all stark staring bonkers. She certainly has a point.

And, much more relevantly, so has Mr Pee ...

[amateur51]

You don't half post some utter rubbish, Flossie. No wonder they have named the latest destructive hurricane after you.

I can't remember ever bringing my wife into any topic on this Forum. Maybe your memory has some other-worldly powers?

In fact the only time she ever seems to be mentioned here is through occasional disparaging remarks by yourself and Amateur51.

So please leave my wife out of this. She has absolutely nothing to do with this Forum and, in any case, believes we're all stark staring bonkers. She certainly has a point.

And, much more relevantly, so has Mr Pee ...

The fact that we've mentioned her demonstrates that you too have mentioned her scotty. And I recall I've only mentioned her in connection to what must be her long-suffering nature.

[amateur51]

You don't half post some utter rubbish, Flossie. No wonder they have named the latest destructive hurricane after you.

I can't remember ever bringing my wife into any topic on this Forum. Maybe your memory has some other-worldly powers?

In fact the only time she ever seems to be mentioned here is through occasional disparaging remarks by yourself and Amateur51.

So please leave my wife out of this. She has absolutely nothing to do with this Forum and, in any case, believes we're all stark staring bonkers. She certainly has a point.

And, much more relevantly, so has Mr Pee ...

I refer you to HMQ's most famous line, scotty ... "My husband and I ..."

[Nick Armstrong]

ff, your message could (and should) be used now and in the future as a classic example of sanity, common sense and insight.

Yes, I am a most-time lurker here these days but have been very struck by the high and tedious levels of goading, baiting, histrionics, "acting the diva", acting the faux-outraged, shooting at ducks in a barrel, etc. from some of the usual, and some surprising, suspects. This applies to many, many threads currently and in the recent past, not just this one, the Mozart one, the Siegfried one, the gay marriage one, take your pick...

Perhaps it's the heat. :erm:

That was my conclusion too, Taps

I agree with your perception (inc of ff's previous).

Having returned from time away, the level of overreaction on many sides in various precincts of the Forum is striking. There seems to have been a thread about speaker cables that got out of hand...

For Pete's sake!

This seems a perfectly legitimate thread in this 'political' section of the Forum. Can't those bored with the topic just stay away?

[scottycelt]

The fact that we've mentioned her demonstrates that you too have mentioned her scotty. And I recall I've only mentioned her in connection to what must be her long-suffering nature.

Oh I may well have mentioned my darling wife in and around about, I think, the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand And Ten, amsey. I think I once did make the startling revelation that she preferred Cliff Richard to Anton Bruckner when the topic of debate happened to be exactly that, ie differing tastes in music.

You need no longer concern yourself about the mental plight of my wife. I can assure you that she has never suffered fools in her life ... well, at least as long as I have known her.