Human Rights

[amateur51]

Really? You know this for a fact? Wishful thinking.

I've worked with refugees and asylum seekers, yes. What makes you write 'wishful thinking'?

[Bryn]

Really? You know this for a fact? Wishful thinking.

Why on Earth do you wish traumatised lives on these people?

[ahinton]

"Wishful thinking"? "Wishing" what? "Thinking" of what? I have less than no idea what this assertion is supposed to convey, if anything - or why...

[Beef Oven]

Why on Earth do you wish traumatised lives on these people?

I don't think that's what he means Bryn.

I think the point that he makes is that we'd rather people be hurt in order for the argument to be stronger. Resurrection Man is drawing attention to the disingenuous emotion contained therein.

Of course I could be misunderstanding his point.

[ahinton]

I don't think that's what he means Bryn.

I think the point that he makes is that we'd rather people be hurt in order for the argument to be stronger. Resurrection Man is drawing attention to the disingenuous emotion contained therein.

Of course I could be misunderstanding his point.

With respect, I think that perhaps you are doing so or, more likely still, he is himself misunderstanding the facts behind the point that he is making.

[Beef Oven]

Really? You know this for a fact? Wishful thinking.

I hope I haven't been overly presumptuous in my post #49.

[jean]

I think the point that he makes is that we'd rather people be hurt in order for the argument to be stronger. Resurrection Man is drawing attention to the disingenuous emotion contained therein.

I am quite sure that that is the point RM is making - though you need to add that he, RM, knows that these people are for the most part not very traumatised at all.

And we really know it too, of course - otherwise our emotion would not be disingenuous. I am not sure RM would go so far, though; he probably thinks 'we' are just well-meaning misguided fools.

[amateur51]

I don't think that's what he means Bryn.

I think the point that he makes is that we'd rather people be hurt in order for the argument to be stronger. Resurrection Man is drawing attention to the disingenuous emotion contained therein.

Of course I could be misunderstanding his point.

I think you both need to be clearer - being a refugee or an asylum-seeker is by its very nature a traumatic experience, even if only initially. Mostly the trauma lasts a lifetime.

Resurrection Man was having a pop, as is his wont.

[Dave2002]

I think you both need to be clearer - being a refugee or an asylum-seeker is by its very nature a traumatic experience, even if only initially. Mostly the trauma lasts a lifetime.

Resurrection Man was having a pop, as is his wont.

I was about to write that this latest theme is getting very obfuscated. I thought your original text was clear enough, and the later interpretations of both your words and the words of others were straying further and further away. It seems perfectly plausible to me that asylum seekers could be under considerable stress, as you have pointed out.

[ahinton]

I was about to write that this latest theme is getting very obfuscated. I thought your original text was clear enough, and the later interpretations of both your words and the words of others were straying further and further away. It seems perfectly plausible to me that asylum seekers could be under considerable stress, as you have pointed out.

I agree but would go farther by stating that I would find it wholly implausible that any asylum seekers might not be under considerable stress - and it is a compound stress that includes but is not necessarily limited to the risk of reprisals in their "home" countries if their applications are unsuccessful, the issues almost inevitably associated with relocation by force of circumstance to a foreign country and the often lengthy wait for the granting or refusal of asylum, to say nothing of the problems of gaining acceptance in the community into which successful applicants have to try to absorb themselves; just moving to a foreign country in ordinary circumstances and as a matter of choice does not usually come without some stress, so the immense additional burden that is by definition placed upon asylum seekers is surely far from hard to understand.

[Beef Oven]

I am quite sure that that is the point RM is making - though you need to add that he, RM, knows that these people are for the most part not very traumatised at all.

And we really know it too, of course - otherwise our emotion would not be disingenuous. I am not sure RM would go so far, though; he probably thinks 'we' are just well-meaning misguided fools.

Yes, all probably true, except the blanket assumption that merely taking up a certain position on a matter means that we are 'well meaning'.

[Dave2002]

ahinton

Agreed

jean and Beef Oven (also RM)

I still haven't a clue what you are all on about!

[Beef Oven]

jean and Beef Oven (also RM)

I still haven't a clue what you are all on about!

Well don't worry, you're not missing much!

[ahinton]

ahinton

Agreed

jean and Beef Oven (also RM)

I still haven't a clue what you are all on about!

I suspect that the clue for which you may or may not be searching might be found in jean's "RM...probably thinks 'we' are just well-meaning misguided fools" in the particular context of RM's own apparent questioning of the extent of the trauma factor for asylum seekers.

To append it to the thread topic, however, what's surely under scrutiny here is the extent to which (a) the right to seek political asylum is and/or should be regarded as a basic human right and (b) the right to grant it is one which is and should be held by all humane governments.

[Sydney Grew]

Let me repeat: abolish the concepts of "nations" and "borders" (left-overs of tribalism); make it illegal even to speak of them, and all the "problems" go away. It is quite obvious! What is more it is bound to happen sooner rather than later. There is no inherent right to "property."