Community and democracy

[ahinton]

The laws are formulated and implemented by the Commission. They are approved by our MEPs and governments elected by us.

"The EU’s standard decision-making procedure is known as 'Ordinary Legislative Procedure’ (ex "codecision"). This means that the directly elected European Parliament has to approve EU legislation together with the Council (the governments of the 27 EU countries). The Commission drafts and implements EU legislation."

Not Wikipedia this time http://europa.eu/eu-law/

Thank you for this; at last it blows to pieces the myth that the entire EU legislative panoply is undemocratic by reason of being predicated and wholly reliant upon the actions of unelected officialdom, however uncomfortable such a fact might seem to be for certain people including some of those amenable to the persuasions of kipperish gibberish...

[ahinton]

that was the other thread

that has in part been transferred across to this one - and you still haven't answered what I believe to be a perfectly reasonable question that is well pertinent to the concepts of community and democracy that is the topic here.

[Ahollingsworth1961]

Because you brought Erdogan into the discussion. And Turkey. He seems to have had an enviably large percentage of the vote. That seems to me more democratic than riots aided by the use of social media.

He has a huge mandate. He could win any election he wishes to contest, local authority, parliamentary or presidential. He is the most popular leader in Turkey since Ataturk.

That's not the issue. He sent in the police with tear gas and water canon to crush a peaceful demonstration concerning the concreting-over of an inner city park and silenced the journalists.

Totalitarian tactics, and very undemocratic. More in keeping with Assad.

[Beef Oven]

He has a huge mandate. He could win any election he wishes to contest, local authority, parliamentary or presidential. He is the most popular leader in Turkey since Ataturk.

That's not the issue. He sent in the police with tear gas and water canon to crush a peaceful demonstration concerning the concreting-over of an inner city park and silenced the journalists.

Totalitarian tactics, and very undemocratic. More in keeping with Assad.

Exactly.

That's what I was trying to get across in post #36.

The Assad reference is very interesting.

Erdogan has been a constant critic of Assad.

[Ahollingsworth1961]

Exactly.

That's what I was trying to get across in post #36.

The Assad reference is very interesting.

Erdogan has been a constant critic of Assad.

I've sent you a pm.

[Beef Oven]

One could argue that there is more mandate in the EU than in the current UK government
and anyway the laws are made by people appointed by OUR elected representatives , just like the police, judges , teachers etc etc
and it's not a case of "foisting" ,or maybe only it's "foisted" if you don't agree with it


YOu mean we ARE part of a European Community ? Goodness me I thought we weren't "part of Europe"

(cherche le troll ?)

What I posted refers to a world-wide community MrGG, not just Europe!!

[french frank]

That's not the issue. He sent in the police with tear gas and water canon to crush a peaceful demonstration concerning the concreting-over of an inner city park and silenced the journalists.

Totalitarian tactics, and very undemocratic. More in keeping with Assad.

But I said that: we applaud the use of the social media when we perceive the protest to be just - but it would have just the same result when a cause is not just. That is why it is not, fundamentally, a democratic use, merely an effective one.

[teamsaint]

The ECB.
How has that got anything at all do do with something that looks like real representative democracy?

A better example of how power and decision making has been taken from the people by the rich greedy and powerful is hard to imagine.

This is money working for big money interests and directly against the interests of the people.

its not my idea of community.
Nor is HS2, for instance.

[Ahollingsworth1961]

But I said that: we applaud the use of the social media when we perceive the protest to be just - but it would have just the same result when a cause is not just. That is why it is not, fundamentally, a democratic use, merely an effective one.

It did not have the same effect with the riots in England two years ago.

[Beef Oven]

The ECB.
How has that got anything at all do do with something that looks like real representative democracy?

A better example of how power and decision making has been taken from the people by the rich greedy and powerful is hard to imagine.

This is money working for big money interests and directly against the interests of the people.

its not my idea of community.
Nor is HS2, for instance.

Perfect example!

[french frank]

It did not have the same effect with the riots in England two years ago.

Do you mean the cause wasn't just or that they didn't use social media to organise the riots?

The starting point was whether social media should be used to advance democracy. I'm simply saying, leaving aside particular examples, that I don't think they would be more democratic than the systems we have.

[french frank]

The ECB.
How has that got anything at all do do with something that looks like real representative democracy?

How has any bank got anything to do with 'real representative democracy'?

[Ahollingsworth1961]

Do you mean the cause wasn't just or that they didn't use social media to organise the riots?

The starting point was whether social media should be used to advance democracy. I'm simply saying, leaving aside particular examples, that I don't think they would be more democratic than the systems we have.

Social media is being used in all countries. In England rioters used it to organise and to show off what they had done. The press reported the goings on. Social media was not needed to circumnavigate the government.

[french frank]

Social media is being used in all countries. In England rioters used it to organise and to show off what they had done. The press reported the goings on. Social media was not needed to circumnavigate the government.

Yes, okay. But doesn't that show that the social media can be very useful to individuals and groups in achieving a particular goal (whatever the nature of the goal)? But my imagination lets me down in trying to see how without some strict supervision of some kind (which goes against the characteristic anarchy of the internet)... in fact, I suppose I'm suggesting that it is precisely that anarchy which makes it, for some uses, undemocratic (Wikipedia and the like notwithstanding). And even Wikipedia can be misused.

[teamsaint]

How has any bank got anything to do with 'real representative democracy'?

well of course they don't, but then the ECB is one of the seven institutions of the democratic EU.
So, it should really be accountable, and act in the interests of the people.