Community and democracy

[MrGongGong]

The perambulator test seems ok.

I fundamentally disagree
Since the industrial revolution and increased mobility people (with some exceptions though the folks in Shetland are some of the least culturally isolated I've met) have lived in wider and wider "communities" which overlap. We all live in multiple communities , it's a good idea to ask the folks on my street about what day to get the bins emptied by not such a good idea to ask them to decide other things. Homespun Forest Gump nonsense (IDS ?) seems "logical" but is very dangerous indeed. Unless, of course, your idea of a legal system consists of the villagers on a cliff in a circle singing "Summer is Icumen in" ?

[Beef Oven]

I fundamentally disagree
Since the industrial revolution and increased mobility people (with some exceptions though the folks in Shetland are some of the least culturally isolated I've met) have lived in wider and wider "communities" which overlap. We all live in multiple communities , it's a good idea to ask the folks on my street about what day to get the bins emptied by not such a good idea to ask them to decide other things. Homespun Forest Gump nonsense (IDS ?) seems "logical" but is very dangerous indeed. Unless, of course, your idea of a legal system consists of the villagers on a cliff in a circle singing "Summer is Icumen in" ?

You make a good point that, particularly with technology, communities are much wider, but you get my point.

But it's not just about simple things like getting your bins emptied.

So much about healthcare could be improved if people, individuals, local communities were actually involved in decisions about how services are provided.

So many things go wrong these days because we do not involve individuals and recognise that people actually live in communities that are geographically defined.

[MrGongGong]

So much about healthcare could be improved if people, individuals, local communities were actually involved in decisions about how services are provided.

Which is quite likely to lead to

..........the good citizens of Totnes sending the MRI scanner to landfill because it uses damaging "dark energy"
replacing it with a local wise woman from the crystal divination temple and use the power of angels to heal the sick

no thanks .......... I'd rather have evidence based medicine

[teamsaint]

But what happens now is that a group drawn from some very narrow areas of life, such as public schools and the banks control our country and world.
Structures are in place to enable this to continue, and this allows things li ke the arms trade and its violent conclusions to follow.
There is no hope in the existing structures.they are designed to ensure the status quo.
There are plenty of people around who are smart enough to run things. They just don't get the chance.

[amateur51]

Again I ask Beefy and Mr GG to respect the topic of this thread. All you have to do is to create your own thread to discuss these matters of different interest. I'm sure that the powers-that-be will even transfer your OT comments to your new thread to facilitate this, on request. Simples.

[Beef Oven]

Which is quite likely to lead to

..........the good citizens of Totnes sending the MRI scanner to landfill because it uses damaging "dark energy"
replacing it with a local wise woman from the crystal divination temple and use the power of angels to heal the sick

no thanks .......... I'd rather have evidence based medicine

Evidence based medicine is one thing, the Care Quality Commission is another. How can you trust what you're being told?

[Beef Oven]

But what happens now is that a group drawn from some very narrow areas of life, such as public schools and the banks control our country and world.
Structures are in place to enable this to continue, and this allows things li ke the arms trade and its violent conclusions to follow.
There is no hope in the existing structures.they are designed to ensure the status quo.
There are plenty of people around who are smart enough to run things. They just don't get the chance.

Well put ts, as per your excellent post #35 from yesterday.

There are 'experts' living right next door to us, but they don't get the chance to influence the world we live in.

[french frank]

Again I ask Beefy and Mr GG to respect the topic of this thread. All you have to do is to create your own thread to discuss these matters of different interest. I'm sure that the powers-that-be will even transfer your OT comments to your new thread to facilitate this, on request. Simples.

Community and democracy? Can do.

[Beef Oven]

Community and democracy? Can do.

Good idea, but please get all the OT/community posts over there, there are some interesting posts that shouldn't be separated.

Can I request that emoticons are disabled there too?

[french frank]

Good idea, but please get all the OT/community posts over there, there are some interesting posts that shouldn't be separated.

Can I request that emoticons are disabled there too?

They already are. I will go right back to where sovereignty develops to community.

[Beef Oven]

They already are. I will go right back to where sovereignty develops to community.

Thanks, I think teamsaint made some interesting observations in his posts that strike at the heart of community and democracy, even though the were off topic.

[french frank]

Thanks, I think teamsaint made some interesting observations in his posts that strike at the heart of community and democracy, even though the were off topic.

In many cases, individuals can participate - either as volunteers, or they can stand for election to the relevant bodies. But 'most' individuals don't want to get involved in a general way: they just have particular points to make on particular topics as they affect them personally. We already have neighbourhood partnerships, but this is the community participating in their neighbourhood interests. Things like healthcare aren't provided on that community basis (there is a consultation process attached to my local surgery which anyone can contribute to).

But only particular kinds of people want to get involved in this kind of thing (like being a councillor) anyway. Most don't (sadly). As I say, they only want to get involved when a particular issue crops up that they think is important.

[Beef Oven]

Reply to ahinton's OT post #35 on the Iraq damages thread.

You may not have explicitly stated that you advocate a world or European government , but your assertion that there is a need for a higher authority when sovereign governments suffer 'laxity' (your term), means the same.

[Beef Oven]

In many cases, individuals can participate - either as volunteers, or they can stand for election to the relevant bodies. But 'most' individuals don't want to get involved in a general way: they just have particular points to make on particular topics as they affect them personally. We already have neighbourhood partnerships, but this is the community participating in their neighbourhood interests. Things like healthcare aren't provided on that community basis (there is a consultation process attached to my local surgery which anyone can contribute to).

But only particular kinds of people want to get involved in this kind of thing (like being a councillor) anyway. Most don't (sadly). As I say, they only want to get involved when a particular issue crops up that they think is important.

Depends how narrowly you view 'involvement'. Social media has seriously challenged our views on involvement.

For example, 35,000 'likes' on Facebook for the EDL is a form of involvement. As was the social media-Taxim square phenomenon in Turkey recently.

Huge amount of 'as and when/only when it crops-up' involvement takes place on social media - it needs to be recognised, understood and articulated to the democratic process.

[french frank]

Depends how narrowly you view 'involvement'. Social media has seriously challenged our views on involvement.

For example, 35,000 'likes' on Facebook for the EDL is a form of involvement. As was the social media-Taxim square phenomenon in Turkey recently.

Huge amount of 'as and when/only when it crops-up' involvement takes place on social media - it needs to be recognised, understood and articulated to the democratic process.

I don't see how you can expect to be involved in any serious decision-making if all you want to contribute is a click on the Like button, or offer a bit of abbreviated textspeak. If you can handle online social media, you can use existing websites.