Originally posted by Richard Barrett
View Post
Afghanistan - the reality
Collapse
X
-
Beef Oven
-
Originally posted by scottycelt View PostIt was Great Britain and France that declared war with Nazi Germany, not the other way around, and there is plenty of evidence that Hitler didn't really want a war with us ... we were a rather annoying distraction ... and his main target was the communist USSR. It wasn't exactly a world war at that stage.
Poor Chamberlain (so despised by the Left) did everything he could to avoid war but eventually had to accept the inevitable. Furthermore, all the evidence shows that Chamberlain had overwhelming public support in his desire to avoid war. Quite right too!
However, in retrospect much of the free world ended up being somewhat grateful for the previously seemingly belligerent likes of Winston Churchill ... ?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
Comment
-
-
scottycelt
Originally posted by amateur51 View PostYou have not addressed RB's points scotty but I admire your use of that auld Naval tactic - "Make smoke!" :winkeye:
Comment
-
Richard Barrett
Don't bother answering my points, scottycelt, I'm really not interested in what you have to say.
Comment
-
amateur51
-
scottycelt
Originally posted by french frank View PostBut that's absurd - and even more irrelevant than Iraq. Nazi Germany did not 'declare war' on any of the countries it invaded. They just invaded them. You could hardly call the Allies the 'aggressors' for getting involved.
So you would have agreed with the public in wanting to avoid war with Hitler, but you feel that war with Afghanistan was okay?
So now we've changed sides again, and Churchill was defending the free world? :confused:
Read my post properly. I sympathised with the desire to avoid war but also concluded that this understandable desire is not always ultimately the correct way forward. Sometimes war is inevitable through no fault of one of the combatants. In the end, the UK and France had little option but to declare war on Nazi Germany, but declare war they most certainly did!
I'm not sure of the relevance of Iraq either ... did I mention it?
Comment
-
Originally posted by scottycelt View PostCome on, ff, you know perfectly well this has absolutely nothing to do with me!
I'm not sure of the relevance of Iraq either ... did I mention it?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
Comment
-
-
scottycelt
Originally posted by french frank View PostSorry! When you said 'Quite right too', I thought you were expressing your personal opinion about wanting to avoid war and that you therefore felt war with Afghanistan was 'inevitable'. I was commenting on that 'you'.
I hate the very idea of war.
Sadly, I think war is sometimes inevitable despite my intense desire to avoid it if at all possible.
Hope that's now clear.
Originally posted by french frank View PostNo, but you introduced Nazi Germany, and ticked me off for drawing parallels with Iraq.
Did I actually 'tick you off 'for drawing parallels with Iraq? I certainly recollect commenting somewhat dismissively on the supposed parallels between Afghanistan and Syria.
Maybe the increasingly frazzled memory is playing tricks again and it's now high time to head for bed!
Comment
-
scottycelt
-
Originally posted by scottycelt View PostSadly, I think war is sometimes inevitable despite my intense desire to avoid it if at all possible.
Hope that's now clear.
Well, I certainly introduced Nazi Germany to make my point.
Did I actually 'tick you off 'for drawing parallels with Iraq? I certainly recollect commenting somewhat dismissively on the supposed parallels between Afghanistan and Syria.It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
Comment
-
-
amateur51
Originally posted by french frank View PostPerhaps you would clarify - on topic - whether you consider the war in Afghanistan was 'inevitable'? Was it because the US wasn't going be stopped, no matter what the circumstances and chances of any form of victory? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
Afghanistan should have provided a lesson to the Western powers: Syria provides the next chance for them to show whether they have learned it. That's the connection.
But Syria will do just as well, tho' I'm truly fed-up that Blair has stuck his oar in again. :oh:
Comment
-
scottycelt
Originally posted by french frank View PostPerhaps you would clarify - on topic - whether you consider the war in Afghanistan was 'inevitable'? Was it because the US wasn't going be stopped, no matter what the circumstances and chances of any form of victory? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?
Originally posted by french frank View PostAfghanistan should have provided a lesson to the Western powers: Syria provides the next chance for them to show whether they have learned it. That's the connection.
Comment
-
amateur51
Originally posted by scottycelt View Postand as I keep saying (sorry!) it was the United Nations (not just the US) who chose the latter course. This you (and others) appear to continue to ignore. Why is this?
As you well know scotty, the prime movers in the attacks on Afghanistan were Bush's USA (axis of evil speech) and Blair's UK. The UN process required that other nations were involved but the military (and political) impetus came from USA/UK
Comment
-
Originally posted by scottycelt View PostYou see, it's those dreadful 'Western powers' again! Do you only read books recommended by Mr Barrett?
a) achieved nothing (evidence of Sherard Cowper Coles on the Radio 4 prog mentioned in the OP)
b) cost many lives of UK personnel alone
c) ergo, wasted £40bn of taxpayers' money.
That surely is a clear enough lesson that further such adventures would be inadvisable?It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
Comment
-
Comment