Hong-Kong - a young man's prospects

[Sydney Grew]

On the question of extradition, it may be useful to draw Members' attention to the following:

Just as Ireland - despite all the talk and fighting over the past century - remains in practice for purposes of immigration and border control a province of Great Britain (or four provinces if you like);

So does Hong-Kong - despite all the hoo-ha in 1997 about "returning to China" - remain in practice Great Britain's colony and indeed a place where the Filth principle is very much alive ("failed in London, try Hong-Kong"). That being the case, we might expect a decision on extradition to be taken not in Hong-Kong, nor in Peking, but in Downing Street, and any day now.

Here is a link to the web-site of the Hong-Kong Cricket Club, which, recently celebrating its 160th Anniversary, enjoys an unique green location, away from the urban sprawl, in the heart of Hong-Kong Island.

http://www.hkcc.org/

Membership is open to all:

http://www.hkcc.org/membershipinformation.aspx

Just contrive the acquaintance of two Ordinary (Full-voting) Members of the Club who shall act as a Proposer and Seconder.

Then wait for 84 months.

Then pay HK$128,000 entrance fee plus a monthly subscription of HK$1,410.

Then enjoy the facilities!

[ardcarp]

but in Downing Street, and any day now.

...unless of course the UK decides to act/think differently from the US.

:laugh:

[scottycelt]

According to the experts ...


http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1257639/treaty-gives-hong-kong-option-reject-snowden-extradition-us

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/10/snowden-hong-kong

:whistle:

My own feeling is that Mr Xi ... whose own country is not exactly noted for any significant lack of surveillance ... will probably consider that young Mr Snowden might be a bit of an embarassment and therefore highly expendable, and indeed he (Mr Xi) may well have already used the 'hero whistleblower' as a bargaining-chip in his recent talks with President Obama.

Both the US and China now need each other more than either might dare to admit and little Hong Kong is not likely to argue too much with either Superpower. Which is very, very bad news indeed for the future prospects of Mr Snowden.

[MrGongGong]

Just as Ireland - despite all the talk and fighting over the past century - remains in practice for purposes of immigration and border control a province of Great Britain (or four provinces if you like);

Really ?
Try buying a car in Northern Ireland then try to tax it in England :yikes:

[french frank]

Really ?
Try buying a car in Northern Ireland then try to tax it in England :yikes:

Though citizens of the Republic of Ireland are eligible to vote in UK general elections.

[MrGongGong]

Though citizens of the Republic of Ireland are eligible to vote in UK general elections.

I think we can also vote in their ones ? (Not sure though )
more importantly DO they ?
or is it like archery practice ?

[french frank]

I think we can also vote in their ones ? (Not sure though )
more importantly DO they ?
or is it like archery practice ?

If they're living in the UK I imagine it's fairly likely that they do. If they are resident in the ROI they won't be on an electoral register.

[teamsaint]

I think we can also vote in their ones ? (Not sure though )
more importantly DO they ?
or is it like archery practice ?

hit and miss?

[MrGongGong]

If they're living in the UK I imagine it's fairly likely that they do. If they are resident in the ROI they won't be on an electoral register.

I'm not sure that there's much wrong with folk voting in a place that they live ?
I'm not sure that folk who have decided to go and live in Spain (for example) should be allowed to vote here anyway ?

[french frank]

I'm not sure that there's much wrong with folk voting in a place that they live ?

That's a separate issue from the OP's point about Ireland specifically. There may not be 'much wrong with it' but the fact is that they can't.

Those disqualified by virtue of nationality: "anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens."

I'm not sure that folk who have decided to go and live in Spain (for example) should be allowed to vote here anyway ?

I don't think they should either, if they live there quasi permanently. If wealthy elderly people retire abroad permanently, they can vote in a general election for, currently, up to 15 years. I think it should be much shorter. But this strays, perhaps, from the OP and its topical implications.

[Beef Oven]

That's a separate issue from the OP's point about Ireland specifically. There may not be 'much wrong with it' but the fact is that they can't.

Those disqualified by virtue of nationality: "anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens."

I don't think they should either, if they live there quasi permanently. If wealthy elderly people retire abroad permanently, they can vote in a general election for, currently, up to 15 years. I think it should be much shorter. But this strays, perhaps, from the OP and its topical implications.

Surely it's a question of citizenship, rather than personal opinion. Don't you vote in the body politic of your citizenship rather than where you live?

[french frank]

Surely it's a question of citizenship, rather than personal opinion. Don't you vote in the body politic of your citizenship rather than where you live?

In the first place, it isn't citizenship that gives you the right to vote (many categories of citizen can't vote). In the second, if you have lived abroad for more than 15 years, you then wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

Arguably you have no interest in the government of a country that you don't live in and have no intention of returning to, regardless of your citizenship.

[Beef Oven]

In the first place, it isn't citizenship that gives you the right to vote (many categories of citizen can't vote). In the second, if you have lived abroad for more than 15 years, you then wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

Arguably you have no interest in the government of a country that you don't live in and have no intention of returning to, regardless of your citizenship.

Many people who live in the UK, particularly asylum seekers may never want to return to their 'homeland' but have a vital interest in the government of that country.

Many such people have their families 'back home'.

I was careful to use the term 'body politic' because I'm aware of the various 'grades' of citizenship.

[french frank]

Many people who live in the UK, particularly asylum seekers may never want to return to their 'homeland' but have a vital interest in the government of that country. Many such people have their families 'back home'.

If you mean an interest in the country in which they no longer live, that would not be a matter of UK legislation if they can no longer vote there.

I was careful to use the term 'body politic' because I'm aware of the various 'grades' of citizenship.

I did not wish to express an opinion as to whether certain people should or should not have a vote here, merely to state the electoral commission's guidance.

And my initial point on that merely mentioned that citizens of the ROI could vote in a UK general election (if they are resident here) as an addendum to the OP comment that "Just as Ireland - despite all the talk and fighting over the past century - remains in practice for purposes of immigration and border control a province of Great Britain" (the factual accuracy of which I have no knowledge).

[Dave2002]

Those disqualified by virtue of nationality: "anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens."

I don't think they should either, if they live there quasi permanently. If wealthy elderly people retire abroad permanently, they can vote in a general election for, currently, up to 15 years. I think it should be much shorter. But this strays, perhaps, from the OP and its topical implications.

I lived in Sweden for about four years. I think we were allowed to vote in European Parliament elections. I can't remember what the status was re local elections - that might have been OK, as we might have had some interest in local affairs. As we aren't Swedish citizens it seemed fair that we couldn't vote in general elections. We also retained residency in the UK, though we only returned for at most the maximum allowed residency to keep HMRC happy - I think it is 90 days - during that period. I also discovered that for UK citizens it's very hard to give up UK residency. HMRC want to keep their chances of recovering tax for as long as they can, which again seems fair for most of us who originate from the UK.

I recall that we still managed to vote in some UK elections during that period, though I think the rules on European elections were such that we could only vote in one country in any one European election.

I also have very vague recollections (or was I dreaming?) about voting in some local elections in California in an earlier period, where not only does one have candidates to vote for, but also referendum motions. These are, it seems to me, often symbolic and emotional, as the State Governor is free to overturn or discount the outcome of most referenda, so they are largely pointless. IMO.

One practical difference between elections in the US and elections in Sweden is that even if the voting procedures are slightly different (or not), the impact of language and (lack of) local knowledge is such that most people from the UK will be able to figure out what's going on in the US, whereas in a country such as Sweden both language and culture make it much harder for an outsider to become involved, and hence to find it worthwhile trying.