Privacy and the State

[MrGongGong]

So what do the ScottyPee's of this world suggest that folks do
when the find out that people are doing unethical and immoral acts on behalf of people who are unaware that these are taking place ?
It's all very well to insist on "loyalty" BUT some things matter more than blind allegiance

[Bryn]

So what do the ScottyPee's of this world suggest that folks do
when the find out that people are doing unethical and immoral acts on behalf of people who are unaware that these are taking place ?
It's all very well to insist on "loyalty" BUT some things matter more than blind allegiance

Probably on their way now to Salisbury Cathedral to get rid of the best preserved copy of Magna Carta (you know, that damned thing so much human rights legislation owes its origins to).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Probably on their way now to Salisbury Cathedral to get rid of the best preserved copy of Magna Carta (you know, that damned thing so much human rights legislation owes its origins to).

Not that they need to - Jack bloody Straw tore up the last vestiges of that blueprint for democracy in 2007.

(And what about the copy in Lincoln Castle?)

[french frank]

Really, that Guardian should be shut down, always banging on about it to sell papers ...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden

[Mr Pee]

PFC Manning has yet to be sentenced.

Where would you suggest that Mr. Snowden should have gone, Mr. Pee?

It is generally accepted that Manning will be imprisoned for many years.

And as for Snowden- back to the US, to face justice for his treason. And I am sure that he will be there before long.

[Bryn]

It is generally accepted that Manning will be imprisoned for many years.

And as for Snowden- back to the US, to face justice for his treason. And I am sure that he will be there before long.

Tell you what. Let the US of A sign up fully to the ICC, then 'W' and Obama can be put on trial, found guilty of their war crimes, and gaoled for life, or in American English, 'jailed'.

[scottycelt]

Probably on their way now to Salisbury Cathedral to get rid of the best preserved copy of Magna Carta (you know, that damned thing so much human rights legislation owes its origins to).

Magna Carta has absolutely nothing to do with me, that's entirely a matter for the English (& Welsh) ... I'm a Declaration of Arbroath sort of guy.

[Richard Barrett]

I'm a Declaration of Arbroath sort of guy.

Hmmm... a letter to the Pope begging for his support for a treasonous secession, that makes sense.

[Pabmusic]

... and gaoled for life, or in American English, 'jailed'.

Wrong thread, surely?

Jailed and gaoled are both good British English (gaoled is the older, but both are old). Since Noah Webster's day at least Americans have dropped gaoled.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Magna Carta has absolutely nothing to do with me, that's entirely a matter for the English (& Welsh) ... I'm a Declaration of Arbroath sort of guy.

Hywel Dda, of course, predates Magna Carta by about 250 years.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Mr Edward Snowden should a) be offered a knighthood b) be offered a house in Holland Park [he will feel at home with all the oligarchs and Sir Richard B] and c) be offered employment by Her Majesty as Curator of the Royal Digital Whatsits ..... it may be considered desirable to offer asylum and employment to PFC Manning [zero hours contract natch] as a butler to the aforesaid Mr Snowden .... they could play computer games with the Princes eh?

[amateur51]

Tell you what. Let the US of A sign up fully to the ICC, then 'W' and Obama can be put on trial, found guilty of their war crimes, and gaoled for life, or in American English, 'jailed'.

Is there space on that charge sheet for Tony Blair please, Bryn.?

'Bunged in clink' or 'a spell in chokey' are my preferred variants.

[ahinton]

Mr Edward Snowden should a) be offered a knighthood b) be offered a house in Holland Park [he will feel at home with all the oligarchs and Sir Richard B] and c) be offered employment by Her Majesty as Curator of the Royal Digital Whatsits ..... it may be considered desirable to offer asylum and employment to PFC Manning [zero hours contract natch] as a butler to the aforesaid Mr Snowden .... they could play computer games with the Princes eh?

I don't think that, as Mr Snowden is a US citizen, (a) could realistically happen, do you?!

Never mind; at least Mr Pee's snubs about his having fallen from the news as well as from grace (in his eyes) have now themselves fallen, given that he's now back in the news daily (Mr Snowden, that is - not Mr Pee).

As to the Declaration of Arbroath, I'd be wary of that, since it presumably involves kippers.

[MrGongGong]

As to the Declaration of Arbroath, I'd be wary of that, since it presumably involves kippers.

ahem

Smokies if you will
Kippers are Herrings
Smokies are Haddock

and i'm not saying anything about why we still have them ...............

[ahinton]

Still can't get over the hypocrisy that somebody who claims to care about human rights and the privacy of the individual has taken asylum in...Russia, that shining beacon of humanity and of course a country that never spies on its own.

Nothing in life is perfect, Mr Pee - and I do not presume to disagree with you on Russia's human rights record over the years - but, as you yourself gleefully pointed out some time ago, there are not many countries that would offer him this in any case and so it's not as though he had a choice to go whereve he might have liked. SUrely, however, what happens next over the ensuing weeks, months and years as a conequence of his actions is of rather greater and more long-term importance than his decision to accept asylum in a particular country?

Still, I am sure that sooner or later he'll be joining Bradley Manning for a long stay in prison.

Yes, you believe yourself to be sure of that, Mr Pee, but let's not pretend that this belief is based on anything of more substance than your personal opinion - i.e. not based and reliant upon evidence gleaned from insider information.

It now seems clear that pre-sentencing hearings could occupy several weeks, so it is unlikely that the nature and duration of any sentence passed down to Mr Manning will be decided at least until some time next month in any case.

In the meantime, 17 members of the European Parliament have written an open letter to the US President requesting termination of Mr Manning's prosecution on the grounds of their assertion that his actions have done more to help US than to harm it; whatever you may think of the EU Parliament and of the case itself, I doubt that such an action would have been taken lightly (see http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/07/br...ct-letter-pdf/). It is a pity for UK that none of the signatories are British and I hope that this fact doesn't send any more of the wrong kind of signals to those watching the outcome of this case with concerned interest.