Privacy and the State

[ahinton]

Hague knew all along that he and others had nothing to worry about. He is very irritating though.

That first bit may indeed be the case, but even to the extent that it is so, it's probably down to that curious and unwelcome blend of complacency and arrogance to which he is wont to have recourse on all too many occasions rather than signifying that he and his henchpersons actually have nothing to worry about.

[amateur51]

That firt bit may indeed be the case, but even to the extent that it is so, it's probably down to that curious and unwelcome blend of complacency and arrogance to which he is wont to have recourse on all too many occasions rather than signifying that he and his henchpersons actually have nothing to worry about.

Is this Mr Hague you're laying into?

Or Mr Pee?

Or both?

Whichever, I agree

[Mr Pee]

Is this Mr Hague you're laying into?

Or Mr Pee?

Or both?

Whichever, I agree

It seems that if you're not a conspiracy theorist who believes that GCHQ etc are snooping on our every move, and doing it for no good reason, then you are complacent, even though today's news demonstrates that nothing was done without ministerial oversight and was within the bounds of the Intelligence and Security Act, despite the desperate efforts of an ailing newspaper to convince us otherwise.

Bye the bye, doesn't anybody else find it somewhat amusing that Mr.Snowden,apparently bored of Moscow airport and finally realising that he has nowhere to go, and having leaked all the details of Prism in the interests, according to him, of human rights and an open society, is now looking for asylum in....Russia. Who of course never spy on their citizens and have an unimpeachable human rights record.

This simply comfirms my suspicion that he is, rather like Julian Assange, little more than an attention-seeking egotist who should be swiftly brought to justice.

[Flosshilde]

It seems that if you're not a conspiracy theorist who believes that GCHQ etc are snooping on our every move, and doing it for no good reason,

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist - just a realist.

nothing was done without ministerial oversight and was within the bounds of the Intelligence and Security Act,

Ministerial oversight? Why does that not reassure me? Ministers, especially this lot, haven't exactly shown themselves to be enthusiastic supporters of our right to privacy.

[amateur51]

It seems that if you're not a conspiracy theorist who believes that GCHQ etc are snooping on our every move, and doing it for no good reason, then you are complacent, even though today's news demonstrates that nothing was done without ministerial oversight and was within the bounds of the Intelligence and Security Act, despite the desperate efforts of an ailing newspaper to convince us otherwise.

Bye the bye, doesn't anybody else find it somewhat amusing that Mr.Snowden,apparently bored of Moscow airport and finally realising that he has nowhere to go, and having leaked all the details of Prism in the interests, according to him, of human rights and an open society, is now looking for asylum in....Russia. Who of course never spy on their citizens and have an unimpeachable human rights record.

This simply comfirms my suspicion that he is, rather like Julian Assange, little more than an attention-seeking egotist who should be swiftly brought to justice.

Cue woo-woo music :smiley:

[amateur51]

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist - just a realist.




Ministerial oversight? Why does that not reassure me? Ministers, especially this lot, haven't exactly shown themselves to be enthusiastic supporters of our right to privacy.

I read the Taliban reply over on the Malala thread and now Mr Pee's latest and I'm compelled to point out that they're both written by men who enjoy the smack of firm government.

[Beef Oven]

It seems that if you're not a conspiracy theorist who believes that GCHQ etc are snooping on our every move, and doing it for no good reason, then you are complacent, even though today's news demonstrates that nothing was done without ministerial oversight and was within the bounds of the Intelligence and Security Act, despite the desperate efforts of an ailing newspaper to convince us otherwise.

I had a sneaking suspicion that this was gonna be a damp squib. I think you are right that it is because of the paper's need to do something about its ailing fortunes that this aspect of the story was egged-up.

[ahinton]

Is this Mr Hague you're laying into?

Or Mr Pee?

Or both?

Whichever, I agree

Mr Hague, tout court! I did once follow him and his wife into RFH on the occasion of the world première of Elgar 3 and was pleased to see that he'd decided to attend, but that's about as far as my sympathies for him go now...

[ahinton]

It seems that if you're not a conspiracy theorist who believes that GCHQ etc are snooping on our every move, and doing it for no good reason, then you are complacent, even though today's news demonstrates that nothing was done without ministerial oversight and was within the bounds of the Intelligence and Security Act, despite the desperate efforts of an ailing newspaper to convince us otherwise.

Bye the bye, doesn't anybody else find it somewhat amusing that Mr.Snowden,apparently bored of Moscow airport and finally realising that he has nowhere to go, and having leaked all the details of Prism in the interests, according to him, of human rights and an open society, is now looking for asylum in....Russia. Who of course never spy on their citizens and have an unimpeachable human rights record.

This simply comfirms my suspicion that he is, rather like Julian Assange, little more than an attention-seeking egotist who should be swiftly brought to justice.

Whilst I do not at all agree your purported assessment of Mr Snowden or, for that matter, Mr Assange, I do agree with you (indeed I could hardly do otherwise) that many countries have a deeply questionable record when spying on their own and other countries' citizens is concerned and that, even if US is one of the worst culprits in this, it is certainly far from alone in its activities in this regard. But as to the notion of "bringing to justice" Messrs Assange and Snowden, the boot is clearly on the other foot.

[ahinton]

I had a sneaking suspicion that this was gonna be a damp squib. I think you are right that it is because of the paper's need to do something about its ailing fortunes that this aspect of the story was egged-up.

Whatever your suspicions of that may be, this paper has no monopoly on the subject, the ongoing dealings in which may well outlast it but will still be ongoing; this stuff ain't gong away any time soon - in fact, I'd give its due consideration in many countries decades rather than mere months...

[amateur51]

Curiouser and curiouser ...

US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden has left the Moscow airport where he had been staying since June after being granted temporary asylum.

Mr Snowden's lawyer said he had left after receiving the papers he needed to enter Russian territory from Sheremetyevo Airport's transit zone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23535524

The whistleblowing organisation Wikileaks, which has been helping him since he made his revelations, said in a tweet that he had been given asylum.

"Edward Snowden was granted temporary asylum in Russia for a year and has now left Moscow airport under the care of Wikileaks' Sarah Harrison," it said.

[Mr Pee]

Still can't get over the hypocrisy that somebody who claims to care about human rights and the privacy of the individual has taken asylum in...Russia, that shining beacon of humanity and of course a country that never spies on its own.

Still, I am sure that sooner or later he'll be joining Bradley Manning for a long stay in prison.

[french frank]

Still can't get over the hypocrisy that somebody who claims to care about human rights and the privacy of the individual has taken asylum in...Russia.

Some countries are more likely to resist pressure to hand him over than others. From that point of view - good choice? Or would you expect him to debate within himself, or consult his friends as to whether the threat of life imprisonment was actually preferable to 'hypocrisy'?

[amateur51]

Still can't get over the hypocrisy that somebody who claims to care about human rights and the privacy of the individual has taken asylum in...Russia, that shining beacon of humanity and of course a country that never spies on its own.

Still, I am sure that sooner or later he'll be joining Bradley Manning for a long stay in prison.

PFC Manning has yet to be sentenced.

Where would you suggest that Mr. Snowden should have gone, Mr. Pee?

[scottycelt]

Still can't get over the hypocrisy that somebody who claims to care about human rights and the privacy of the individual has taken asylum in...Russia, that shining beacon of humanity and of course a country that never spies on its own.

Still, I am sure that sooner or later he'll be joining Bradley Manning for a long stay in prison.

Quite .. though I do hope he doesn't get one of those ridiculously long American prison sentences. He's far too young for that and we were all young fools once even if we didn't betray strict confidences, colleagues and country.

Also some of those who now support young Snowden are the very same people who were warning not so long ago about the death of capitalism, revolution on the streets of Europe, and were wildly rejoicing at 'the people's' victory in the 'new' Egypt.

Yes, quite ...