Originally posted by french frank
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I'm amused by your use of apparent, ff -
Sub-editor's caution. I can't immediately find credible confirmation that the flight was diverted because Snowden was rumoured to be on board. The claim appears to be Bolivia's. France apologised for the ban claiming 'conflicting information'. The other European countries have not confirmed it either. And I don't know! :-)Originally posted by amateur51 View PostIt isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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New article in the Guardian. 'How history is written and rewritten.'It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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I am surprised by the administration's reticence to go for Snowden. Perhaps it is not reticence but more softly, softly ...?Originally posted by french frank View Post
Nagging away in the back of my mind is the possibility that there is evidence somewhere in Snowden's heavily encrypted files of the administrations' spying not only on its citizens in a generalised way that doesn't alarm the scotty/Pee constituency, but also on its domestic political enemies specifically. And the last President to be suspected of that was ultimately impeached for so doing. In a world in which politicians are obsessed with 'legacy' that is a hornets' nest that should remain undisturbed, I imagine.Comment
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Yes others have also shared that idea - so far the US has upset EU, most of South America (tho they have near a century experience here) all for an ex-techie - it's either colossal spite by those in charge or that they don't know exactly what Snowdon has and are scared sh*tless that it could be incendiary.Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
Judging by comments by several Americans it appears that the US media has also been told to play it down - the UK seems to have really applied a D notice to what is probably the key story this decade in favour of a spat that the Tories are exploiting to hide the fact that their paymasters call even more shots that the Unite union ever could - adenoidal kid is as usual totally out of his depth.
ETA one key revelation that seems to be little discussed is that the UK 'taps' into international fibre optic cable - I wonder if perfidious Albion has installed a backdoor channel in the various repeaters - would be easy to provide a backpath over one of the nominally dark fibres used as 'spares' - would give easy access to much international traffic of many smaller countries.Last edited by Frances_iom; 06-07-13, 17:11.Comment
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Simon Jenkins reveals that the New York Times this week carried a story from a whistleblower close to Washington's foreign intelligence surveillance court, known as the Fisa court – a secret body set up in 1978 to monitor federal phone taps. It now gives legal cover to intelligence trawling of millions of individuals, at home and abroad.
These judgments, all in secret, confirmed the gist of Snowden's evidence – and validated his motive. The reason why a previously loyal ex-soldier broke cover was not to aid an enemy. It was to inform a friend, his own country. He was simply outraged by the lies told to Congress by his bosses about NSA operations. As Harvard's Stephen Walt said, Snowden was performing a public service in drawing attention to a "poorly supervised and probably unconstitutional" activity.
More chillingly still, The New York Times pointed out that the Fisa court had become a "parallel supreme court". It catered to a mirror universe beyond the reach of Congress or normal courts, servicing a new and burgeoning realm of government and private securocrats. When asked about this world, NSA bosses merely said they could not "jeopardise American security".
So ... how far is GCHQ involved in this parallel judicial activity, Mr Hague?Comment
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So how has the situation facing Edward Snowden developed?
"The US whistleblower Edward Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia, telling immigration officials that he fears for his life, three weeks after landing at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport.
"He's scared for his life, for his security," Snowden's lawyer Anatoly Kucherena told Russian state television, referring to US plans to prosecute Snowden.
Snowden has applied for temporary asylum in Russia, a status granted for one year that then can be renewed on a yearly basis indefinitely, Kucherena said. The FMS (Federal Migration Service) has up to three months to deliver its decision on Snowden's application, he said."
"Vladimir Putin has vowed not to extradite Snowden to the US, but has twice said that he hopes the US whistleblower will leave Russia soon. Snowden has said he would like to travel to Latin America, where Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia have offered him asylum.
"He arrived in our country without an invitation," a smiling Putin told students on Monday. "He didn't fly to us – he flew in transit to other countries. But only when it became known that he was in the air, our American partners, in effect, blocked him from flying further."
"They themselves scared all other countries – no one wants to take him and this way, they blocked him on our territory. That's the present we got for Christmas."
So .. we wait and watch. I think that Putin is rather enjoying this fix that the USA has got itself into and the opportunity that has been served up to him on a plate to appear to be the good guy in all this.Comment
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In an interesting development the Guardian publishes an e-mail exchange between Edward Snowden and former two-term GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire in which Humphrey writes ...
"Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution."
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It appears from last week's relevations that Microsoft built special backdoors into its Outlook mail service allowing even supposedly encrypted messages to be read by NSA - apparently NSA don't even need a specific warrant to access any Microsoft mail service - likewise for Skype - all specially routed via US controlled switching centres.
The EFF has now filed suit on behalf of a 'motley set' of protest groups who suspect they are targets for special monitoring
There are also reports in some papers that there is now an increasing backlash against Google (and MS) with many companies in Asia avoiding US owned commns companies.
I wonder if the EU will have the courage to continue with its protests - there would appear to be considerable agitation in Germany for Merkel to put herself to the fore against the US actionsComment
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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain.Comment
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Not so. In fact, very far from so, as we've only heard the beginning of this. Note towards the end of the article the words "however, the committee does suggest that the laws governing intelligence operations should be considered to ensure they are still relevant and adequate"; this is fundamental, of course, as all laws are and indeed have to be in a constant state of flux at an ever-increasing speed of change in order best to try to meet changing circumtances arising from all manner of developments, especially technological ones, so even if no UK laws have been broken, there remains the open question of whether those laws are sufficiently robust and appropriate, not to mention whether, even if no British law has been breached, any EU law to which Britain is subkject might have been breached and whether EU laws are up to scratch to address this kind of issue.Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
If this is indeed no more than a storm in a teacup, as you suggest, the teacup must be of sufficient size to contain oceans, rather as Whitman spoke of containing multitudes.Comment
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Funny how you chose not to quote the rest of that sentence, "although it makes no suggestion that this might not be the case."Originally posted by ahinton View Post
A tad selective.Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Mark Twain.Comment
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A tad, perhaps, but that's of no consequence really, since the committee likewise made no suggestion that this might be the case! The principal points at issue, however, are (a) whether US broke any of its own laws and used UK to assist in so doing, (b) whether or not UK laws really were not broken, (c) whether or not and to what extent UK laws are up to the job and (d) whether any EU laws have been borken even in no UK ones have been.Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
Much as we're all used to it here by now, your evident complacency and lack of concern over such issues never ceases to surprise and puzzle me.Comment
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Hague knew all along that he and others had nothing to worry about. He is very irritating though.Originally posted by Mr Pee View PostComment
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