Privacy and the State

[scottycelt]

I think you are being over complacent

Ahinton may well pull you up on your very own 'over complacency', Mr GG ...

[Serial_Apologist]

Wow.
makes my life feel kind of dull.
Did he give the records back, S_A? I hope so.

One of them he had leaning against a hot radiator. I had to ask for them back. It was only later we discovered who he was. Bar steward! <grrrrrrr>

By coincidence, sort-of, the woman running the London operations of the ANC used to live in this block here, before my time. The ununiformed police were on permanent patrol. The neighbour was very happy with all that - said she felt more secure. <erm>

[ahinton]

Ahinton may well pull you up on your very own 'over complacency', Mr GG ...

I hasten to assure you and anyone else that might need such assurance that I will not pull anyone up over anything purely because scotty predicted that I might do so!

[french frank]

From the link on Petrushka's virus thread on the Techie board:

"Furthermore, to make this alert seem more authentic, this virus also has the ability to access your installed webcam, so that the bogus Cheshire Police Authority notification shows what is happening in the room."

Well. I've got nothing to hide (except how untidy my rooms are). But if criminals can do it ...

[amateur51]

George Monbiot links the Met's spying on the Lawrence family trying to create a smear campaign against them, Edward Snowden and PRISMgate, William Hague being economical with the verité in Parliament and Nick Herbert's very odd views and concludes "How can we invest our trust in a government that spies on us?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/how-trust-state-spies-citizens

Listening to Neville Lawrence last night, I was nearly in tears. If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear? Is that right Mr Hague? :yikes::grr:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23038488

Matthew Ryder QC a barrister who represented the Lawrence family has said they are "shocked" at claims the police wanted to smear them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23027127

[Frances_iom]

From the link on Petrushka's virus thread on the Techie board:

"Furthermore, to make this alert seem more authentic, this virus also has the ability to access your installed webcam, so that the bogus Cheshire Police Authority notification shows what is happening in the room."

I don't think I'm paranoid but the 1st thing I do with a new laptop is to stick a small black circular marker over the facing cameras (2nd thing I do is to swop out the hard drive and replace windoze with a linux variant

ETA to return the the original subject tho Monbiot is too often totally OTT in this case it is obvious that mission creep had allowed the Met to effectively go rogue with no effective oversight - I'm sure Mr Pee will come in to ensure us that GCHQ could never do the same but they could all too easily smear or make modern life almost impossible for anyone - just look at the knee jerk reactions from US 'rednecks' re Snowdon.

[amateur51]

It gets worse :yikes:

The Met Police secretly recorded its officers' meetings with Stephen Lawrence's friend Duwayne Brooks and his lawyer, the BBC has learned.

Mr Brooks was with the 18-year-old on the night he was killed in a racist attack in 1993 in Eltham, south London.

Mr Brooks and his lawyer were unaware that the meetings were being recorded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23048266

Duwayne Brooks has been hassled by the police since the night of the murder and might have hoped that he could get on with his life after the successful prosecution of two of Stephen Lawrence's murderers. This revelation of covert recording by a senior Met officer of a meeting with his solicitor can surely only serve to stir things up again for him and for the Lawrence family.

[ahinton]

It gets worse :yikes:

The Met Police secretly recorded its officers' meetings with Stephen Lawrence's friend Duwayne Brooks and his lawyer, the BBC has learned.

Mr Brooks was with the 18-year-old on the night he was killed in a racist attack in 1993 in Eltham, south London.

Mr Brooks and his lawyer were unaware that the meetings were being recorded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23048266

Duwayne Brooks has been hassled by the police since the night of the murder and might have hoped that he could get on with his life after the successful prosecution of two of Stephen Lawrence's murderers. This revelation of covert recording by a senior Met officer of a meeting with his solicitor can surely only serve to stir things up again for him and for the Lawrence family.

Indeed but, as the venerable Mr Pee might in another perspective on the context have us believe, the most surprising thing about this is that anyone's really all that surprised at these revelations (not to mention the notion that, if Mr Brooks and his lawyer had done nothing wrong, they had nothing to fear, except that, were that indeed to be the case, the police would have had nothing to do but nevertheless allegedly did it).

[amateur51]

Indeed but, as the venerable Mr Pee might in another perspective on the context have us believe, the most surprising thing about this is that anyone's really all that surprised at these revelations (not to mention the notion that, if Mr Brooks and his lawyer had done nothing wrong, they had nothing to fear, except that, were that indeed to be the case, the police would have had nothing to do but nevertheless allegedly did it).

Apparently the meeting in question was an opportunity for a senior Met officer to brief Duwayne Brooks and his lawyer about progress on the search for and prosecution of Stephen Lawrence's murderers. Why on earth would it be necessary to record it covertly, when it would have been quite possible, the lawyer said today, to take notes at the meeting, even to record it if necessary. Brooks and the Lawrence family have been treated as though they were the one who have perpetrated crimes here, rather than the murderers and the Met. The meeting was held under the belief that it was confidential. Time and gain,apparently the Met has behaved disgracefully in its treatment of innocent parties both before and after Sir William Macpherson's Inquiry and the prosecution of Stephen Lawrence's murderers.

Duwayne Brooks has said repeatedly that he just wants to 'be free of Steve' and to be allowed to get on with the rest of his life (he is currently a LibDem councillor in LB Lewisham). These latest revelations just drag him back to a bad place.

[scottycelt]

I don't think I'm paranoid but the 1st thing I do with a new laptop is to stick a small black circular marker over the facing cameras (2nd thing I do is to swop out the hard drive and replace windoze with a linux variant

ETA to return the the original subject tho Monbiot is too often totally OTT in this case it is obvious that mission creep had allowed the Met to effectively go rogue with no effective oversight - I'm sure Mr Pee will come in to ensure us that GCHQ could never do the same but they could all too easily smear or make modern life almost impossible for anyone - just look at the knee jerk reactions from US 'rednecks' re Snowdon.

On your first point I wholly agree, though no need to cover your camera ... just install Linux Mint!

On your second I have yet to see the media coming to the obvious conclusion (at least to me) that Snowden deliberately wormed his way into the US secret services to do exactly what he is now doing. I'm not surprised he is wanted by the US for 'espionage', especially when we know the countries to where he has fled. Wikileaks is also reported to be heavily involved in the affair. This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and always has done, imv.

I find it quite incredible that anyone can even consider this dishonest, shady character who betrayed his close colleagues and country to be some sort of 'hero'.

[amateur51]

On your first point I wholly agree, though no need to cover your camera ... just install Linux Mint!

On your second I have yet to see the media coming to the obvious conclusion (at least to me) that Snowden deliberately wormed his way into the US secret services to do exactly what he is now doing. I'm not surprised he is wanted by the US for 'espionage', especially when we know the countries to where he has fled. Wikileaks is also reported to be heavily involved in the affair. This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and always has done, imv.

I find it quite incredible that anyone can even consider this dishonest, shady character who betrayed his close colleagues and country to be some sort of 'hero'.

My, what a broad church we are here :biggrin:

[Richard Barrett]

My, what a broad church we are here

Let's leave the church out of it maybe, some people are a bit touchy about having its hypocrisies displayed... but really, even if Edward Snowden did "worm his way" into the security services in order to dig up some dirt and publicise it (which I don't believe for one moment, since of course he can have had no idea in advance of what he was going to find, what with it being top secret and everything), even if he was hand in glove with Wikileaks from the start (ditto), he would still be someone worthy of admiration for bringing those things to public attention. I think people deserve to know what is being done in their name; after all we are supposed to live in a democracy where public servants are accountable to those who elected them. From Monbiot's article:

Talking to Sunday's Observer, a senior intelligence source expressed his or her concerns about mass surveillance. "If there was the wrong political change, it could be very dangerous. All you need is to have the wrong government in place." But it seems to me that any government prepared to subject its citizens to mass surveillance is by definition the wrong one. No one can be trusted with powers as wide and inscrutable as these.

Why is that so difficult to see?

[ahinton]

Apparently the meeting in question was an opportunity for a senior Met officer to brief Duwayne Brooks and his lawyer about progress on the search for and prosecution of Stephen Lawrence's murderers. Why on earth would it be necessary to record it covertly, when it would have been quite possible, the lawyer said today, to take notes at the meeting, even to record it if necessary. Brooks and the Lawrence family have been treated as though they were the one who have perpetrated crimes here, rather than the murderers and the Met. The meeting was held under the belief that it was confidential. Time and gain,apparently the Met has behaved disgracefully in its treatment of innocent parties both before and after Sir William Macpherson's Inquiry and the prosecution of Stephen Lawrence's murderers.

Duwayne Brooks has said repeatedly that he just wants to 'be free of Steve' and to be allowed to get on with the rest of his life (he is currently a LibDem councillor in LB Lewisham). These latest revelations just drag him back to a bad place.

All fully understood!

[amateur51]

Let's leave the church out of it maybe, some people are a bit touchy about having its hypocrisies displayed... but really, even if Edward Snowden did "worm his way" into the security services in order to dig up some dirt and publicise it (which I don't believe for one moment, since of course he can have had no idea in advance of what he was going to find, what with it being top secret and everything),

I'm hoping that scotty can enlighten us as to why that line of thought is just so wrong, because you just know he's going to try.

[ahinton]

Let's leave the church out of it maybe, some people are a bit touchy about having its hypocrisies displayed... but really, even if Edward Snowden did "worm his way" into the security services in order to dig up some dirt and publicise it (which I don't believe for one moment, since of course he can have had no idea in advance of what he was going to find, what with it being top secret and everything), even if he was hand in glove with Wikileaks from the start (ditto), he would still be someone worthy of admiration for bringing those things to public attention. I think people deserve to know what is being done in their name; after all we are supposed to live in a democracy where public servants are accountable to those who elected them. From Monbiot's article:
Why is that so difficult to see?

It isn't - unless one wilfully acquires the kind of blinkers necessary to enable one to turn a blind eye to it. I too do not believe for a moment that Snowden set out to pull this job in order to do what he'd decided to do lately, for the reasons that you state (if none other). Of course we all need to know what's being done not only in our name but also, as a rule, at our expense. I'm with you 100% on this and am far from alone in so being.