Privacy and the State

[ahinton]

I'm hoping that scotty can enlighten us as to why that line of thought is just so wrong, because you just know he's going to try.

Come on, now am51, that's abit unfair! If he does indeed try, then so be it, but don't let's make an assumption and set an unnecessary trap when the facts as best we can understand them speak all too eloquently for themselves regardless of what any of us might want to say!

[Frances_iom]

On your first point I wholly agree, though no need to cover your camera ... just install Linux Mint!

I do use Mint ranging from version 11 to 15 ! - however Mint attempts to photo me in installation in mistaken belief that I want my photo as a user id - I prefer not to have my labelled photo in a known place - hence the black sticky before Mint is installed!

Re Snowdon - I suspect you are very wrong - all initial reports seemed to suggest a Damascene conversion

[scottycelt]

I'm with you 100% on this ... .

Uncharacteristically a little bit grudging of you, ahinton?

Normally you are much more gushingly generous in your appraisal!

[scottycelt]

I'm hoping that scotty can enlighten us as to why that line of thought is just so wrong, because you just know he's going to try.

Yes, I know it's often a waste of time but all we can do is try, amsey ... oh how some of us do try ... :winkeye:

You see, spies tend to worm their way into secret services to find out what is secret then hopefully pass these secrets onto their political masters/favourites abroad. That's what spies tend to do.

It's been going on for centuries. apparently.

Unbelievable, eh?

[ahinton]

Uncharacteristically a little bit grudging of you, ahinton?

Normally you are much more gushingly generous in your appraisal!

Appraisal of what? I am unaware of having previously given appraisal of any kind to whatever you seem to think it is that you appear to seek to claim that I've appraised on this occasion. More importantly, however, do you actually have a pertinent and on-topic point of some kind to make here? - and, if so, might you care to provide detail as to what it is and what your purpose might be in making it? Thanks in advance!

[Sydney Grew]

Uncharacteristically a little bit grudging of you, ahinton?

D.C. not A.C. it might be noted . . .

[Richard Barrett]

You see, spies tend to worm their way into secret services to find out what is secret then hopefully pass these secrets onto their political masters/favourites abroad. That's what spies tend to do.

No sh*t, Sherlock. And then presumably spies "tend" to hand over those secrets to the Washington Post and the Guardian and give away their identity and location, right?

[french frank]

You see, spies tend to worm their way into secret services to find out what is secret then hopefully pass these secrets onto their political masters/favourites abroad. That's what spies tend to do.

It's been going on for centuries. apparently.

Unbelievable, eh?

Yes, indeed. And whistle-blowing is a modern variant where people worm their way into all sorts of places to check whether anything illegal or against regulations is happening - just so that they can blow the whistle on them and bring down the righteous wrath of the wrong-doers upon themselves. It's what whistle-blowers do, trust me.

scotty, if you look back at what you've said, I think you'll find an illustration of what is called "prejudice": you have no inside knowledge whatsoever, yet you're surprised that you appear to have been alone in realising that someone whose activities you disapprove of is even worse than is thought by the media - not usually averse to pursuing a sensational story. Have you written to any of them yet?

What is so strange that he should choose to go to a country which may not be quite so keen to whip him back home again as, say, the UK (currently prepared to spend millions on a round-the-clock police surveillance of another famous fugitive 'spy' wanted by the US)?

[Pabmusic]

...What is so strange that he should choose to go to a country which may not be quite so keen to whip him back home again as, say, the UK (currently prepared to spend millions on a round-the-clock police surveillance of another famous fugitive 'spy' wanted by the US)?

That's not really correct. The UK is trying to enforce an order for Assange's deportation to Sweden in relation to sexual offences. He says the US wants him (I believe him) and that, if deported to Sweden, the Swedes will hand him over to the Americans. There's been no charges laid against him in the US (as there have over Snowden).

[french frank]

That's not really correct. The UK is trying to enforce an order for Assange's deportation to Sweden in relation to sexual offences. He says the US wants him (I believe him) and that, if deported to Sweden, the Swedes will hand him over to the Americans. There's been no charges laid against him in the US (as there have over Snowden).

True - but still a reason to choose a country less likely to deport him anywhere, which may well be an 'enemy' of the US.

And Bradley Manning has been charged - while Wikileaks is merely being 'investigated'.

[Pabmusic]

True - but still a reason to choose a country less likely to deport him anywhere, which may well be an 'enemy' of the US...

Quite agree there.

[ahinton]

D.C. not A.C. it might be noted . . .

Pardon?

[amateur51]

Yes, I know it's often a waste of time but all we can do is try, amsey ... oh how some of us do try ... :winkeye:

You see, spies tend to worm their way into secret services to find out what is secret then hopefully pass these secrets onto their political masters/favourites abroad. That's what spies tend to do.

It's been going on for centuries. apparently.

Unbelievable, eh?

Don't 'spies' tend to try to stay under cover, scotty rather than trumpetting their finds hither and thither?

Nice try, no cigar this time.

[amateur51]

True - but still a reason to choose a country less likely to deport him anywhere, which may well be an 'enemy' of the US.

And Bradley Manning has been charged - while Wikileaks is merely being 'investigated'.

Bradley Manning was held in solitary confinement for a very long time, in part naked, and is now in court I understand. I guess it's a military court too. No wonder that Edward Snowden is keen to keep clear of Amercian justice while he can.

Meanwhile William Hague is in USA lecturing us all on the need for secrecy. A few weeks ago I was moaning about the absence of satire :erm:

[Richard Barrett]

Meanwhile William Hague is in USA lecturing us all on the need for secrecy

... while in Europe, German ministers (many of whom, including Angela Merkel, know what it's like to grow up in a police state) are giving Cameron a piece of their mind about GCHQ. I find it really hard to understand why there are still people prepared to put their trust in politicians who have such abundant form as self-serving liars, while at the same time calling someone like Snowden a traitor for risking his life to expose truths that we deserve to know and be able to discuss. Obviously the ubiquity of electronic communication changes the world in many ways and has implications whose depths we can still only guess at, but in a democracy something so important should surely be a metter of public debate rather than leaving any decisions to be taken behind closed dors by people who claim to know what's good for us (a claim which their actions - for example regarding the NHS - emphatically contradict).