Privacy and the State

[amateur51]

Meanwhile in other conspiracy news rendering parody superfluous, this is bizarre - the last minute is extraordinary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22832994

Maybe he should have asked Tim Yeo for some presentation guidance, allegedly :erm:

[Serial_Apologist]

Maybe he should have asked Tim Yeo for some presentation guidance, allegedly :erm:

:ok::smiley:

Nwevertheless, BBC 1 Sunday morning programmes are a disgrace. Does anyone else on here watch? All of them, starting with the so-called "Andrew Marr Show" in which people like Ed Balls (today) are allowed to get away with providing half-answers to inadequate cross-examinations, local councillors half-heartedly put on the block, (OK I know Marr's suffered a stroke, but whoever presents it's always the same chumminess), followed by "The Big Questions" - another supercilious presenter given to defusing the to and fro of debate just as it's getting to some salient point, and then the "Sunday Politics Show". Anybody would think the BBC is trying to drive us all to church!

OT, I know - but I just had to get this off my chest.

:steam:

[Nick Armstrong]

:ok::smiley:
BBC 1 Sunday morning programmes are a disgrace.

I'm pleased to have given Sunday morning TV programmes a wide berth for decades :ok:

[Thropplenoggin]

Ah, brillo pad! ah, humanity!

http://www.pootergeek.com/wp-content.../07/Brillo.jpg

With apologies to Private Eye.

[Mr Pee]

Nevertheless, BBC 1 Sunday morning programmes are a disgrace.
:steam:

The Murnaghan programme over on Sky News is a much better and more serious alternative.

[scottycelt]

The Murnaghan programme over on Sky News is a much better and more serious alternative.

Yes, I discovered that quite recently. It knocks the AMS for six. Intelligent conversation and debate rather than the increasingly inane chatter of the AMS.

Murnaghan's non-aggressive, probing style is ideal for those of us who just wish to break free from the now seemingly compulsory Humphrys-style interviewing at the BBC.

[Thropplenoggin]

Whistleblower revealed: a must-watch video. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...r-surveillance

Brave lad.

[teamsaint]

Panic over. Only bad people need be worried.
Apparently.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/william-hague-lawabiding-britons-have-nothing-to-fear-from-gchq-8651013.html

[Thropplenoggin]

Panic over. Only bad people need be worried.
Apparently.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...q-8651013.html

Ah, William 'foetus-head' Hague! Ah, humanity!

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Yes, it's all a conspiracy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgBq6q4x8Fw&feature=player_embedded

[ahinton]

Yes, it's all a conspiracy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgBq6...layer_embedded

...in which one sees the ubiquitous Neil wringing his hands even before it gets under way...

All that needs to be recognised here, I think, is that, if something is possible, it will probably occur at some point. OK - records of emails, calls and internet site visits only, not their content, yet it's blazingly obvious that, as it's possible to record the traffic itself, it's possible to record the content and so, at some point, it will have been or will be so recorded. What's the next step? Each individual to have his/her own personal compulsory government issue drone (at his own personal expense) monitoring his/her every second of activity and inactivity and every word spoken? And after that, perhaps neuroscience will enable more sophisticated versions of such drones to monitor thoughts as well as actions? Who can say? - except to note, once again, that what can be done almost certainly will be done at some stage. Thatcher seems to have got it wrong; the remark attributed to her that "there's no such thing as society" should perhaps have been "there's no such thing as privacy".

As I've said before, the argument that if one has done nothing wrong one has nothing to fear has an ironic eloquence that is almost invariably (and quite deliberately) ignored by those who persist in putting it forward, namely in that, as each of us has done something wrong at some point ("let he [and presumably by implication also she] who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that), each of us has something to fear (unless any of us can develop sufficient braggadocio not to care less).

[MrGongGong]

Panic over. Only bad people need be worried.
Apparently.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...q-8651013.html

"You have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide" —

why don't I entirely believe this ?

[An_Inspector_Calls]

...in which one sees the ubiquitous Neil wringing his hands even before it gets under way...

All that needs to be recognised here, I think, is that, if something is possible, it will probably occur at some point. OK - records of emails, calls and internet site visits only, not their content, yet it's blazingly obvious that, as it's possible to record the traffic itself, it's possible to record the content and so, at some point, it will have been or will be so recorded. What's the next step? Each individual to have his/her own personal compulsory government issue drone (at his own personal expense) monitoring his/her every second of activity and inactivity and every word spoken? And after that, perhaps neuroscience will enable more sophisticated versions of such drones to monitor thoughts as well as actions? Who can say? - except to note, once again, that what can be done almost certainly will be done at some stage. Thatcher seems to have got it wrong; the remark attributed to her that "there's no such thing as society" should perhaps have been "there's no such thing as privacy".

As I've said before, the argument that if one has done nothing wrong one has nothing to fear has an ironic eloquence that is almost invariably (and quite deliberately) ignored by those who persist in putting it forward, namely in that, as each of us has done something wrong at some point ("let he [and presumably by implication also she] who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that), each of us has something to fear (unless any of us can develop sufficient braggadocio not to care less).

I'd guess that Neil is less ubiquitous than you are on this board . . .

If the government want to supply my own personal drone, I have no objections, provided it makes no noise. They can have all my e-mails, and they can install as many CCTV cameras as they want.

There's no irony in the argument, we are all perfectly aware of our individual sins, it's just that most of us have the wit to weigh our transgressions.

[ahinton]

I'd guess that Neil is less ubiquitous than you are on this board . . .

To the extent that he is no (at least as far as I know) a member of this board and I am, that is hardly surprising, i think.

If the government want to supply my own personal drone, I have no objections, provided it makes no noise. They can have all my e-mails, and they can install as many CCTV cameras as they want.

"...and much good may they do it", you might well have added. I cannot see what harm it would do if it had continuous access to yours and mine, but why would either of us see fit to trust it with such data when government agencies already have a poor track record of losing and otherwise misapplying it?

There's no irony in the argument, we are all perfectly aware of our individual sins, it's just that most of us have the wit to weigh our transgressions.

No doubt we do but, taken literally, the notion that if one has done nothing wrong one has nothing to fear still means that each of us may well have something to fear if all of our communications data falls into the hands of governments or other organisations that cannot be trusted to use it appropriately or treat it securely.

[Richard Barrett]

If the government want to supply my own personal drone, I have no objections, provided it makes no noise. They can have all my e-mails, and they can install as many CCTV cameras as they want.

History shows that once a surveillance-obsessed system takes things to that kind of level (as for example in the GDR), being innocent, or having "nothing to hide", doesn't actually protect you from anything. So be careful what you wish for.