Tax dodging is not only limited to the UK

[Dave2002]

Global companies seem to be keen to avoid paying taxes - http://www.buzzfeed.com/peterlauria/...avoid-us-taxes

The whole issue of taxing companies which operate in different countries seems very complex. I can't see why a "home" country should feel it is entitled to tax companies for operations in other parts of the world ***, but on the other hand, there seem to be many companies which are organising their businesses to minimise paying taxes anywhere.

*** Indeed, the article makes clear that the US does not tax revenue earned outside the US - only if it is repatriated.

[teamsaint]

There is a huge issue around the collapsing corporation tax base in the uK.

http://www.taxjournal.com/tj/articles/reuters-probes-decline-corporation-tax-receipts-31122012

governments ought to address this, but of course the people who fund them don't really want that !

[Charlie]

It is time to walk the walk on global taxation, teamsaint. Wolfgang Schäuble and George Osborne, finance ministers of Germany and the United Kingdom (UK) respectively, called for “concerted international co-operation” to make corporate taxation more effective. The sentiment cannot be faulted, Dave2002, but they need to prove this is not all talk and no action. Other possibilities exist, the salmon pink newspaper concludes. Such measures should be used – unilaterally if necessary – where the principle of no double taxation turns into a practice of double non-taxation.

FT - Walking the walk on global taxation: Anglo-German tough talk risks remaining just that

It may be the case that national governments no longer really have the power to tax effectively in our increasingly globalised world, Dave2002. Individuals and corporations will inevitably attempt to reduce their tax liabilities around the world, and governments will compete with one another to provide tax havens for the super-rich. Interestingly, all great religious teachers have argued that in order to free the spirit, we must shed all our earthly possessions.

"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

Bible Gateway - Matthew 19:21-24 (King James Version)

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, teamsaint, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[teamsaint]

well IF, and its a big if, governments want to deal with this issue they will either have to deal with what c calls the double non taxation issue, or move away from corporation tax to other forms of taxation, which is presumably what the big money wants.

Its a pity nobody seems to be connecting the failure of the current government to reduce borrowing (whilst slashing spending) and the rapidly diminishing corporation tax take.

For simplicity, corporate profits in the UK are approx £330 Bn PA, and tax paid is about £20bn and falling.

And of course its worse than that because so much profit is exported.

Time for action, as Secret Affair said back in 1979.

[ahinton]

As long as taxation, corporate or individual, remains a competitive market by reason of some countries imposing less in taxes than others, this problem will not and indeed cannot go away; those corporations and individuals who are able to choose where they wish to be taxed can and will do so. Yes, there are measures that could be taken that might indeed prove effective in reducing the "losses" arising from companies and people arranging the geography of their tax affairs in the ways that best suit them, they cannot reasonably be expected to do more than scratch the surface of a problem that self-evidently will remain with us all unless and until all major countries agree on broadly identical tax régimes - which, for a host of reasons, simply isn't going to happen.

[Resurrection Man]

There is a huge issue around the collapsing corporation tax base in the uK.

http://www.taxjournal.com/tj/articles/reuters-probes-decline-corporation-tax-receipts-31122012

governments ought to address this, but of course the people who fund them don't really want that !

So who funded the Government when Labour were in power? Was it the same people funding the current Government? Do we have 'people' who only fund Labour? If so, who? Or is it the banks...ah, the dastardly banks, funding everyone and everything....conspiracy....perhaps it was a banker who killed Diana?

Or burnt my toast today?

[Resurrection Man]

well IF, and its a big if, governments want to deal with this issue they will either have to deal with what c calls the double non taxation issue, or move away from corporation tax to other forms of taxation, which is presumably what the big money wants.

....

Sorry but you talk such tosh. What IS IT with you and all these secret conspiracy theories? In one breath you are saying that the corporations are creaming it in with all the various tax regimes and then you say that the same corporations move away from corporation tax to other forms of taxation, which is presumably what the big money wants.

[teamsaint]

so what exactly, if anything, are you saying?Do you have an answer to the statistically provable collapsing corporation tax base, RM?

What have labour or conservative got to do with it? they have identical policies. Follow the money. Look at Blair's CV, for example.

Oh, and if you recall, it was the collapse of the banks that send public spending through the roof.

[teamsaint]

Sorry but you talk such tosh. What IS IT with you and all these secret conspiracy theories? In one breath you are saying that the corporations are creaming it in with all the various tax regimes and then you say that the same corporations move away from corporation tax to other forms of taxation, which is presumably what the big money wants.

Think it through, RM.
Big corporations are happy with a dwindling take on corporation tax. It will get to a point where its not worth collecting, so a move will be made to other forms of personal or spending tax to fill the void.
Or something close to that model. It's not so hard. you do know that big money constantly lobbies for lower taxes, higher reliefs, etc, don't you ?

Perhaps it is just bad luck that CT is dropping like a stone while profits soar?

[Resurrection Man]

so what exactly, if anything, are you saying?Do you have an answer to the statistically provable collapsing corporation tax base, RM?
.....

Uh uh...please answer the questions posed in post 6 and 7. Then we can move on to your question.

EDIT: I do agree with your viewpoint..although not the logic.

[teamsaint]

answered point in #7.
#6. You know as well as I who funds parties, and how lobbying works. Look at the outcomes. look at where the politicians get their next pay day.
You really cannot be that naive, RM, I know you aren't.

Edit: got to work tomorrow, to help shore up the CT take. I look forward to resuming.


Follow the money.......

[Resurrection Man]

...
Follow the money.......

Aye..you're right there. Been revisiting the DAB issue...it's nothing at all to do with 'quality' (hollow laugh) or 'choice' (even hollower)...it is all about the BBC saving money and the commercial boys making more profit....at our expense.

Re corporate tax dodging....is it really that...dodging I mean. Surely they are playing the same system that you or I do. For example, if you found a way to save paying some tax legally at the personal level, wouldn't you do it ?

[Simon]

As long as taxation, corporate or individual, remains a competitive market by reason of some countries imposing less in taxes than others, this problem will not and indeed cannot go away; those corporations and individuals who are able to choose where they wish to be taxed can and will do so.

... there are measures that could be taken ... they cannot reasonably be expected to do more than scratch the surface of a problem that self-evidently will remain with us all unless and until all major countries agree on broadly identical tax régimes - which, for a host of reasons, simply isn't going to happen.

I don't usually just quote and agree, but I have to say that IMO this is an excellent, factual post, AH.

I believe that in Europe the Irish are perhaps the worst offenders here - they have cost us billions! More fool us for letting it happen, of course. And even bigger fool us for helping them out recently with a loan we couldn't afford... !

[amateur51]

Aye..you're right there. Been revisiting the DAB issue...it's nothing at all to do with 'quality' (hollow laugh) or 'choice' (even hollower)...it is all about the BBC saving money and the commercial boys making more profit....at our expense.

Re corporate tax dodging....is it really that...dodging I mean. Surely they are playing the same system that you or I do. For example, if you found a way to save paying some tax legally at the personal level, wouldn't you do it ?

Frankly, no! Life's too short to be fretting about having HMRC on my tail. Pay what you're due and re-laaaax :biggrin:

[MrGongGong]

Re corporate tax dodging....is it really that...dodging I mean. Surely they are playing the same system that you or I do. For example, if you found a way to save paying some tax legally at the personal level, wouldn't you do it ?

Depends on how much time it takes
whether I had to waste valuable musicking time thinking about it
whether I would have to consider finance on a regular basis rather than only get round to it very sporadically
and so on ........ some people will drive 50 miles to save a penny off a gallon of petrol

some things are legal but morally dubious
and some things are illegal but wrongly so