Boston Marathon: Is terrorism ever justified?

[Richard Barrett]

Any comment on the MI5 link? Or are you simply dismissing at as a scaremongering work of fiction?

Not in the least. No doubt MI5 is doing its best to limit as far as possible the fallout from Blair's catastrophic foreign policy, which, predictably, has resulted in the country being a lot less safe than it was before. As Prof Chomsky says, the best way to stop terrorism is not to participate in it.

[Mr Pee]

Not in the least. No doubt MI5 is doing its best to limit as far as possible the fallout from Blair's catastrophic foreign policy, which, predictably, has resulted in the country being a lot less safe than it was before. As Prof Chomsky says, the best way to stop terrorism is not to participate in it.

Ah yes. Conveniently ignoring the fact that passenger planes were flown into the World Trade Centre way before any British troops went anywhere near Iraq or Afghanistan. And I suppose the bombs on Madrid commuter trains and a nightclub in Bali were also the fault of Tony Blair.

I thought the terrorists were radical Islamic Fundamentalists who have a deep-seated loathing for Western democracy and freedom and whose sole aim is the destruction of that system and its replacement with a society based on Sharia Law, in which women are covered, subjugated, and barred from education ,adulterers and homosexuals will be stoned to death, and thieves will have their hands cut off.

But according to you they are just a bit hacked off with British foreign policy. :erm:

[Richard Barrett]

I am certainly not forgetting the destruction of the World Trade Centre in 2001 because a close relative of mine was killed in that attack. What you seem to be forgetting is that it didn't come from nowhere, but in the context of Western governments carving the Middle East up for their own ends since the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the very latest, supporting repressive régimes in the area while preaching democracy and freedom, and so on. The reality of "Western democracy and freedom" in much of the third world is repression and subjugation. Which, naturally enough, people hate.

I thought the terrorists were radical Islamic Fundamentalists who have a deep-seated loathing for Western democracy and freedom and whose sole aim is the destruction of that system and its replacement with a society based on Sharia Law

I believe the word for that kind of thinking is 'paranoid.'

[teamsaint]

Drove into Tavistock today, to be greeted by a police riot van with what looked fully tooled up police on board.

That is Tavistock Devon, BTW.

I think there must have been a riot going on.

But a nice genteel Devon type riot. Because it was hard to spot.

[scottycelt]

The reality of "Western democracy and freedom" in much of the third world is repression and subjugation. Which, naturally enough, people hate.

Can you give an example of where this repression and subjugation is taking place right now ...?

[Russ_H]

I think it’s safe to say - without having to list examples, for God's sake - that a developed country like America has long had adequate laws in place to hunt down criminals in neighbourhoods without terrorising residents, and violating their Fourth Amendment rights: namely protection against search [and seizure] of private properties without a warrant. Let alone at gunpoint. Of course this has kicked off a whole US debate about “exigent circumstances” and setting a precedent to alter the Constitution. Evidently the Patriot Act wasn’t enough.

And it was an informant and thermal imaging that located the suspect.

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security, deserve neither and will lose both.
Attrib. Benjamin Franklin.

So you are not willing to outline how you would have managed the situation?

[MrGongGong]

Ah yes. Conveniently ignoring the fact that passenger planes were flown into the World Trade Centre way before any British troops went anywhere near Iraq or Afghanistan. And I suppose the bombs on Madrid commuter trains and a nightclub in Bali were also the fault of Tony Blair.

I thought the terrorists were radical Islamic Fundamentalists who have a deep-seated loathing for Western democracy and freedom and whose sole aim is the destruction of that system and its replacement with a society based on Sharia Law, in which women are covered, subjugated, and barred from education ,adulterers and homosexuals will be stoned to death, and thieves will have their hands cut off.

But according to you they are just a bit hacked off with British foreign policy. :erm:

I used to think that you were wilfully misunderstanding what seems to be the kind of very simple points that Richard was making

"the best way to stop terrorism is not to participate in it"


Which seems to contain nothing that suggests that he thinks that killing people is a good idea
the opposite in fact ......

But now I really think that you simply don't understand how non objective language works, maybe it's the military training ? I don't know but nowhere do I see anyone suggesting that executing gay people is a good idea ? even Cardina**** NO NO lets not go THERE :whistle:



(and I would always be VERY wary indeed of anyone who uses the words "freedom & democracy" in the way that seems to suggests that they are ALWAYS part of the same thing ! Some "democratic" acts will deny basic freedoms ........ and so on. NOT everyone wants to live the same way, having more stuff doesn't make you happy nor does being able to buy automatic assault weapons in Tescos )

[teamsaint]

Can you give an example of where this repression and subjugation is taking place right now ...?

Tavistock, if the policing is anything to go by.
and all down the A 303 judging by the number of patrol vehicles. Its not called the Wild West for nothing.

[scottycelt]

Any advance on Tavistock, anyone ...? :winkeye:

[amateur51]

Can you give an example of where this repression and subjugation is taking place right now ...?

Well I'd nominate Iraq for starters where our toppling of Saddam without a plan for peace has unleashed a Sunni v Shia Muslim civil war. And people in Pakistan and Afghanistan being blown to bits by American drones. :sadface:

[ahinton]

I am certainly not forgetting the destruction of the World Trade Centre in 2001 because a close relative of mine was killed in that attack.

I had no idea. I am truly very sorry to hear it.

[ahinton]

It doesn't need to be said that it's always tragic when someone is violently killed, and I don't believe anyone ever deserves to be violently killed. But this must surely also apply to the well over a million people estimated to have perished in Iraq as a direct consequence of the US invasion of 2003 and subsequent occupation, no? And each one of those people was not one bit different in their worth as a human being from those killed by the Boston bombing. So, fairly insignificant in the wider scheme of things, yes.

Yes and yes indeed. As Berg once wrote of his teacher's work, why is it so hard to understand? This does seem to be so for some...

[Richard Barrett]

Can you give an example of where this repression and subjugation is taking place right now ...?

I can't believe you're asking that question seriously. Iraq has already been mentioned. Afghanistan would be another example. And then there's Bahrain. And occupied Palestine. And the USA's good ally Saudi Arabia, the most extreme Islamic fundamentalist state in the world. Will that do for now?

[Stillhomewardbound]

Please. Can we not move on:


Sorry, Boston, and sorry my American cousins (three of them and their children living in Boston) , but can I say to news editors around the world, there are too many stories you are now ignoring. Once more in my survey of the news websites I see that the Marathon Bombing is still sat on top of the international news agenda keeping a story such as this (as linked) down the agenda.

Body counts must never be a currency in our news values and I just wish that we could witness an even coverage of tragedies around the world, whether they are natural or man mad.

In the last two weeks children have lost their parents, parents their children, and parents their parents, and that is the story from Massachusetts and many more miles beyond, and even the most parochial of news outlets ought to want to respect that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/24/bangladesh-building-collapse-shops-west

[Boilk]

So you are not willing to outline how you would have managed the situation?

I'm not willing to dignify some of the twaddle put forth on this thread by two or three cloud cuckoo land-based posters - of which you seem to be one - by responding to it. Life is too short ... people either have the IQ that provides a minimum level of awareness of what's going on in the world, or they don't.