Boston Marathon: Is terrorism ever justified?

[Beef Oven]

Oh dear - we're back to put-downs are we? Two's company and three's a crowd??

I'm not going to patronise you by spelling out what was as obvious in my posting as in GG's - weapons is weapons.

No put down - Don't know what you're on about. I just don't understand how we get to be talking about Islamic groups and the like.

Twos' company......? what's that all about?

[Richard Barrett]

No need to shout, it doesn't make your case any more convincing.

It isn't intended to, it's just an expression of frustration that you aren't responding to this "case" but just reiterating your "some people are just evil" mantra without any kind of supporting argument. But that unfortunately seems to be something you do in discussions. I take it then that you have a totally defeatist attitude in this matter and that you believe there's simply no way of society doing anything to address the problem of people like Breivik, am I right?

And Anna, it can't be true that we're "born as innocent babes" while simultaneously being "cruel. avaricous, greedy and downright nasty", can it?

[Serial_Apologist]

And Anna, it can't be true that we're "born as innocent babes" while simultaneously being "cruel. avaricous, greedy and downright nasty", can it?

Indeed - half of Anna's argument did not support its own conclusion.

[teamsaint]

We are born good.
Why is it that we are constantly told that we have evil inside of us, that we will always revert to bad behaviours? and who is telling us?

It seems to me that those, at the top, who wish to justify their own greed, violence , arrogance and so on, have a vested interest in having the rest of us believe that these qualities are somehow inherent in human nature.
I don't think they are. In fact cooperative , giving behaviour is very much the norm. Look around . Most of the time , in most places, it is good behaviour that actually dominates.

[Richard Barrett]

Why is it that we are constantly told that we have evil inside of us, that we will always revert to bad behaviours? and who is telling us?

Often, strangely, it's religious people. Only saying. :whistle: If human beings were that bad we would have driven ourselves to extinction many thousands of years ago.

[ahinton]

It isn't intended to, it's just an expression of frustration that you aren't responding to this "case" but just reiterating your "some people are just evil" mantra without any kind of supporting argument. But that unfortunately seems to be something you do in discussions. I take it then that you have a totally defeatist attitude in this matter and that you believe there's simply no way of society doing anything to address the problem of people like Breivik, am I right?

Richard - stop wasting your valuable time; you've surely tried hard enough. I cannot comment on scotty or anyone else beyond feeling the same kind of frustration that it seems impossible to get through - and that's not at all about arguing for its own sake or indeed differences of opinion per se but about the more fundamental issues that you raise; if indeed society cannot do anything to address the issues of Breivik and others, then we would indeed be facing a quite horrifyingly defeatist situation - but fortunately I do not believe this to be the case any more than you do.

[MrGongGong]

Often, strangely, it's religious people. Only saying. :whistle: If human beings were that bad we would have driven ourselves to extinction many thousands of years ago.

Indeed
People are, on the whole, empathetic and collaborative maybe it's because we choose to have "leaders" who aren't that we sometimes think this isn't the case ?

[teamsaint]

Often, strangely, it's religious people. Only saying. :whistle: If human beings were that bad we would have driven ourselves to extinction many thousands of years ago.

ooh arr.

as we say in 'ampshire.

[teamsaint]

Indeed
People are, on the whole, empathetic and collaborative maybe it's because we choose to have "leaders" who aren't that we sometimes think this isn't the case ?

Or have those leaders imposed on us.

[ahinton]

Often, strangely, it's religious people. Only saying. :whistle:

Not always, it's not, but you're quite right that at least a pseudo-religious or religious-manqué factor can inform and affect this kind of thing in practice.

If human beings were that bad we would have driven ourselves to extinction many thousands of years ago.

There can surely be no credible argument against that...

[teamsaint]

Football. Couldn't be more "competitive".
Yet what makes great teams, or winning teams is NOT competition, fundamentally, its cooperation with team mates.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh dear - we're back to put-downs are we? Two's company and three's a crowd??

I'm not going to patronise you by spelling out what was as obvious in my posting as in GG's - weapons is weapons.

It's a pity that put-downs become a way to attempt to win arguments - something they can never do. This is a serious topic, worthy of serious discussion, which most posters seem to accept.
Please could people make their points without personal attacks upon one another?

[scottycelt]

It isn't intended to, it's just an expression of frustration that you aren't responding to this "case" but just reiterating your "some people are just evil" mantra without any kind of supporting argument. But that unfortunately seems to be something you do in discussions. I take it then that you have a totally defeatist attitude in this matter and that you believe there's simply no way of society doing anything to address the problem of people like Breivik, am I right?

No, I don't think you are, frankly. Everyone is capable of evil, including you and I. We are also capable of good. It is our choice. The only problem with people like Breivik is people like Breivik. They choose to mass murder out of sheer hatred of their fellow humans. Levi Bellfield who murdered Milly Dowler killed her and other young girls because 'he hated blondes' and thought they should all die. We cannot stop people being that evil if they are determined to be so ... we can only combat and hopefully defeat them. People like Bellfield and Brevick will and do crop up in any society. I mean nice little Norway, for goodness sake!

I'm not interested in impressing you or anyone else in forum discussions or tamely withdrawing the allegedly 'unhelpful' words I use. I simply post as I see things.

[Anna]

And Anna, it can't be true that we're "born as innocent babes" while simultaneously being "cruel. avaricous, greedy and downright nasty", can it?

Yes, it can. However, I see my arguments have been dismissed as not supporting their own conclusion!
Blimey, they (my arguments) were so heavyweight that me conclusions buckled! Actually, a bit fed up with you lot here at the mo so will not say further

[Richard Barrett]

I'm not interested in (...) tamely withdrawing the allegedly 'unhelpful' words I use.

Nobody (except the Pope maybe) is interested in you "tamely withdrawing" anything. It isn't the word "savages" that's unhelpful, it's the idea that there's something... I don't know... natural, or inexorable, about them. The problem with your concept of "battling and defeating" terrorists and mass murderers is that by the time you get around to it the damage is done. What I'll try once more to say is that it might be a good idea to investigate what drives people to do such things, so that perhaps they could be prevented from happening. In the case of events like the September 2001 attacks on the USA this might involve looking at why so many Muslim people think of the USA as their enemy.

As for people like Breivik cropping up in any society, how can you be sure? Have you studied all of them? Are there social structures in which they are less likely? (Norway is a European society with the same structures and problems as any other, but a smaller population, that's all.) Mightn't it be a good idea for people to be interested in questions like that, rather than stamping the word "savages" on the problem and forgetting about it until the next time?