Marriage

[scottycelt]

OK, that's fine - but then why refer to "sexist" and "heterophobic" homosexuals as though they have, bt implication, at least, some kind of monopoly on sexist behaviour and phobia of other sexual orientations to their own?

Perhaps you didn't mean to do that, but what you wrote could be taken to read that way...

Well, let me try and spell it out so there can be no further confusion.

If those who are opposed to 'Gay Marriage' are to be automatically termed 'homophobic' (and much worse) if they simply wish to retain the existing definition of marriage, then surely those who are happy with the existing definitions of words like 'lesbian' which exclude heterosexual males and indeed homosexual males are in a very similar boat ?

So logically (if that means anything anymore) heterosexual males would be likewise entitled to accuse those who might be unwilling to change the current definition of 'lesbianism' to include male heterosexuals as being both 'sexist' and 'heterophobic' ?

Or is there some subtlety of 'equality' language here that I'm missing ... ?

[Flosshilde]

anything that might dispose of the ghastly legacy of "I now pronounce you man and wife" as distinct from "I now pronounce you husband and wife" (the former of which has always sounded to me as though whoever is blessing the marriage is doing so to only half of its participants) can only be a good thing.

:ok:

[amateur51]

Well, let me try and spell it out so there can be no further confusion.

If those who are opposed to 'Gay Marriage' are to be automatically termed 'homophobic' (and much worse) if they simply wish to retain the existing definition of marriage, then surely those who are happy with the existing definitions of words like 'lesbian' which exclude heterosexual males and indeed homosexual males are in a very similar boat ?

So logically (if that means anything anymore) heterosexual males would be likewise entitled to accuse those who might be unwilling to change the current definition of 'lesbianism' to include male heterosexuals as being both 'sexist' and 'heterophobic' ?

Or is there some subtlety of 'equality' language here that I'm missing ... ?

I think the word for which you are struggling is not homophobia scotty but heterosexism. Heterosexism is a value system in which one sexuality (usually monogamous heterosexuality) is regarded as being intrinsically superior to another (usually homosexuality).

I hope that helps :smiley:

[Flosshilde]

In the course of my working-life I had the pleasure of many friendships with colleagues whom I was told were homosexual (we never discussed our personal 'sexual orientation', that was considered a very private matter). The ones I knew all had a rich sense of humour and we had some great laughs, believe me.

In the course of my working-life I had the pleasure of many friendships with colleagues whom I was told were black (we never discussed our colour, that was considered a very private matter). The ones I knew all had a wonderful sense of rhythm and we had some great dances, believe me.

[Mr Pee]

Matt is by far my favourite cartoonist....his latest in the Telegraph today is well worth a look, too. I have tried in vain to post pictures before within these messages, but being a technophobe, am completely flummoxed as to how to do it.

I use an image uploader called Imgur:-

http://imgur.com/

If you register there, when you click on a web image, you will be given the option"upload to Imgur". Click on that option and you will save the image to your Imgur account. Then, within imgur when you select the pic to upload, you will see on the right of your screen various options, one of which will be "BB Code for message boards and forums". Right click on that to copy, and then just paste the link into your message. When you preview or post your message, the picture will appear within it.

Very simple once you get the hang of it! :winkeye:

(And it's free.)

[Stephen Whitaker]

In the course of my working-life I had the pleasure of many friendships with colleagues whom I was told were black (we never discussed our colour, that was considered a very private matter). The ones I knew all had a wonderful sense of rhythm and we had some great dances, believe me.

Depressed gay people only like to work with the black people who can't clap in time to Leonard Cohen.

[scottycelt]

I think the word for which you are struggling is not homophobia scotty but heterosexism. Heterosexism is a value system in which one sexuality (usually monogamous heterosexuality) is regarded as being intrinsically superior to another (usually homosexuality).

I hope that helps :smiley:

So those opposed to the proposed new marriage definition are not necessarily 'homophobic' but rather 'heterosexist' ... ?

I see ... I'm sure that must be a much more lovingly tolerant and inclusive term, amsey.:erm:

[Flosshilde]

It must be a lot to do with the use of language. Traditionally, marriage was, and still is in many cultures, a system to set up a household where the next generation is to be produced. It wasn’t/isn’t primarily about relationship. Within this definition, if two people of the same sex live together because they want to so does not count as marriage.

Doversoul, many lesbian couples have produced & brought up the next generation. Lesbian couples & gay couples have fostered & raised the next generation, some of whom have been thrown out of their homes by their 'loving', hetrerosexual, married parents because they were gay.

Heterosexual marriage is not the only, nor neccessarily the best, environment in which to raise children.

[scottycelt]

In the course of my working-life I had the pleasure of many friendships with colleagues whom I was told were black (we never discussed our colour, that was considered a very private matter). The ones I knew all had a wonderful sense of rhythm and we had some great dances, believe me.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::ok:

Brilliant Flossie, wondered when we'd eventually experience your razor-sharp wit!! :bubbly::magic:

[Ferretfancy]

I thought I would die laughing while watching the news a couple of nights ago as a bunch of tory activists from the shires presented a letter of complaint at No 10. Does anybody want to re-elect a bunch of ageing dinosaurs like these? ( I speak as a 77 year old but still frisky velociraptor myself)

One point. Both the C of E and the Catholic church are specifically banned from performing gay marriages under the act. Unlike the other denominations they will not be able to choose whether to do so or not, and there are those in both churches who object to that. Naturally, the Catholic Church would prefer to dictate terms to its followers rather than be told what to do by Parliament.

As a gay atheist in a civil partnership I'm not yet clear whether a second ceremony in a registry office would bring any additional legal benefits to us. Recognition of gay marriage status might be an improvement for work and travel in Europe, I suppose, but the situation is still very confused.

I still believe strongly that if gay couples sincerely wish to have their commitment recognised by a religious marriage, their wishes should be honoured. So many homosexual people feel that for all their lives they have stood at a window looking in from the outside, and this has to stop.

[Mr Pee]

Doversoul, many lesbian couples have produced & brought up the next generation. Lesbian couples & gay couples have fostered & raised the next generation, some of whom have been thrown out of their homes by their 'loving', hetrerosexual, married parents because they were gay.

Heterosexual marriage is not the only, nor neccessarily the best, environment in which to raise children.

Interesting use of the word "produced" there, Flossie. Makes it sound like a burger factory. :yikes:

And although a Gay or Lesbian couple may well "produce" children, somewhere along the line male/female biology had to play a part.

And of course there are unhappy heterosexual marriages, and some people of all sexual persuasions who are wholly unsuited to being parents, or fostering children. However, at the risk of being labelled a heterosexualist by Amsy, I still believe that the best environment in which to raise a child is that of a loving home, with both a male and female role model; i.e a heterosexual (married) couple. I believe that this gives the child the best and most balanced upbringing. The primary concern must be the long-term future of the child.

[Stephen Whitaker]

All those war-widows bringing up their children alone after World War 2 are no doubt responsible for the ills of society we have suffered from in the decades since then.

[Mandryka]

One thing that intrigues me is the homosexual 'community''s determination to appropriate all the appurtenances of heterosexual union for its own purposes, while simultaneously retaining its right to 'apartness'.

No doubt the more militant among them feel that this is only fair, considering all the years they spent in the trenches, when they were illegal, Oscar Wilde, Alan Turing, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

But it really is nonsense: homosexual relationships have been recognised by law for some years now (as it is quite right they should be) but why these relationships should be sanctified by a rite never intended to apply to couples other than a man and a woman, is beyond me.

It is, if you'll pardon the expression, a perversion of something that a lot of people hold sacred - even if it doesn't mean a lot to me.

In any case, as many homosexuals freely admit, 'gay' relationships tend to be measured in weeks and months rather than years - so, we can look forward to rocketing 'divorce' statistics in the coming years. How ironic that Cameron - a man who claimed to want to strengthen marriage and the traditional family - may have contributed to a process by which marriage becomes, literally, meaningless.

The homosexual activists have hardly behaved with dignity over this issue: whenever I hear one of them on the radio, I'm reminded of John Osborne's immortal phrase: 'like a guild of housewives pointing out Alexander the Great.'

[amateur51]

Interesting use of the word "produced" there, Flossie. Makes it sound like a burger factory. :yikes:

And although a Gay or Lesbian couple may well "produce" children, somewhere along the line male/female biology had to play a part.

And of course there are unhappy heterosexual marriages, and some people of all sexual persuasions who are wholly unsuited to being parents, or fostering children. However, at the risk of being labelled a heterosexualist by Amsy, I still believe that the best environment in which to raise a child is that of a loving home, with both a male and female role model; i.e a heterosexual (married) couple. I believe that this gives the child the best and most balanced upbringing. The primary concern must be the long-term future of the child.

Never in my wildest dreams can I imagine myself ever calling you a heterosexualist, Mr Pee :laugh:

However, heterosexist seems to fit like a glove.:ok:

Not that you care.

And frankly, neither do I :biggrin:

[Bryn]

... 'gay' relationships tend to be measured in weeks and months rather than years ...

A situation which is quite unknown among heterosexuals. :whistle: http://th251.photobucket.com/albums/...con/th_doh.gif