Not so harmless

[ahinton]

The good news is that it isn't too late for him to do National Service.

Where's the "good news" in that, given that the man's unfitness for public office surely renders him unfit for public service?

[ahinton]

Their distancing themselves was, as you say, unavoidable but I suspect that they will still be quite happy if it has gained them a few more votes.
See Monday's Indie

Fair point insofar as it goes, but I suspect that this will gain them no votes at all and that it might even risk losing them a few.

[ardcarp]

I know several UKIP adherents (including one well-known composer and arranger) and none of them is racist, fascist, intensely nationalistic or even remotely right-wing. They genuinely believe that Britain would be better off outside Europe, and UKIP, being the only party firmly committed to quitting the EU, seems their natural home. There is probably a wide spectrum of political belief amongst UKIP members, and the leadership would be wise to distance itself (as it has obviously done in this case) from the extremes of right and left.

[ahinton]

I know several UKIP adherents (including one well-known composer and arranger) and none of them is racist, fascist, intensely nationalistic or even remotely right-wing. They genuinely believe that Britain would be better off outside Europe

This much I can well believe.

UKIP, being the only party firmly committed to quitting the EU, seems their natural home.

That's not true, actually - or at least that UKIP is "the only party firmly committed to quitting the EU" is not true; I hesitate to quote from the BNP manifesto for the last UK General Election (see http://communications.bnp.org.uk/ge2010manifesto.pdf) but it does include the statement that "the BNP demands an immediate withdrawal from the European Union, which is an organisation dedicated to usurping British sovereignty and to destroying our nationhood and national identity".

There is probably a wide spectrum of political belief amongst UKIP members, and the leadership would be wise to distance itself (as it has obviously done in this case) from the extremes of right and left.

Indeed - just as there is within most other parties to a greater or lesser extent.

[MrGongGong]

I know several UKIP adherents (including one well-known composer and arranger) and none of them is racist, fascist, intensely nationalistic or even remotely right-wing. They genuinely believe that Britain would be better off outside Europe, and UKIP, being the only party firmly committed to quitting the EU, seems their natural home. There is probably a wide spectrum of political belief amongst UKIP members, and the leadership would be wise to distance itself (as it has obviously done in this case) from the extremes of right and left.

There probably is a wide spectrum of beliefs in this organisation but would you really want to align yourselves with many of their members ?

UKIP is a collecting ground for some very nasty people indeed

[ahinton]

There probably is a wide spectrum of beliefs in this organisation but would you really want to align yourselves with many of their members ?

UKIP is a collecting ground for some very nasty people indeed

Well, I wouldn't personally, but then for one thing I don't have to and for another I don't have a problem with accepting that there is as likely to be a wide spectrum of beliefs within it as there is within other parties.

[Mr Pee]

UKIP is a collecting ground for some very nasty people indeed

Every party has some nasty people, if by that you mean people whose views you find disagreeable. UKIP were quick to distance themselves from this gentleman's views, yet you seem determined to tar all UKIP members and supporters with the same brush. The trouble is that both Labour and the LibCons are virtually indistinguishable, having morphed into one centrist blob. (And I don't mean Eric Pickles....:whistle:). So the large minority who are Euro-Sceptic, and who feel that immigration has now gone too far, do not have many options. UKIP are gaining support precisely because they represent an alternative to the other main parties. Of course they will attract the odd nutter, but show me a party that doesn't.

[MrGongGong]

Every party has some nasty people,

But the Kippers seem to have more than their share ...... (those who aren't totally deluded fantasists )........... I feel very strongly about the demonisation of my Moslem friends BUT I don't sign up for combat training in the tribal areas of Pakistan !

you seem determined to tar all UKIP members and supporters with the same brush

They aren't all as obnoxious as this horrible man but they are all stark raving bonkers and deluded............ some harmlessly so which I guess is a small blessing

[ahinton]

Every party has some nasty people, if by that you mean people whose views you find disagreeable.

First part correct in itself, without the need for adornment - second part incorrect / irrelevant.

UKIP were quick to distance themselves from this gentleman's views, yet you seem determined to tar all UKIP members and supporters with the same brush.

I don't personally, as I hope that I have indicated.

The trouble is that both Labour and the LibCons are virtually indistinguishable, having morphed into one centrist blob. (And I don't mean Eric Pickles....:whistle:).

That "centrist blob" does actually include a substantial proportion of UKIP members as well; don't forget that.

So the large minority who are Euro-Sceptic

A minority, yes, but how large and where is your statistical proof of the figures for this?

and who feel that immigration has now gone too far

How far is too far and how many different views do you suppose there may be as to how far is too far? More importantly, however, "immigration" per se does not include the coming to Britain of those already legally entitled to live there, which is vastly more than the current total UK population.

UKIP are gaining support precisely because they represent an alternative to the other main parties

When they have even as many seats in Parliament as do the LibDems, I might even begin to concede your assertion, but not before - and they have a long way to go to achieve this.

Of course they will attract the odd nutter, but show me a party that doesn't.

At last, truth!

[Lateralthinking1]

I feel that we need to know more about the composition of UKIP but probably not until 2021 when they still won't have won any seats but will have affected the outcome of two general elections and sent shock waves through the three party system.

[MrGongGong]

I feel that we need to know more about the composition of UKIP but probably not until 2021 when they still won't have won any seats but have sent shock waves through the three party system.

and the ones in the Maldives have all floated away ?

[Lateralthinking1]

and the ones in the Maldives have all floated away ?

Yes, and irrespective of its human rights record, it isn't a tax haven according to OECD, although some might disagree -

http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/oecdconcludesmaldivesnotataxhaven.htm

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/01/the_turboest_taxes.html

[MrGongGong]

Interesting when one reads a bit more
the supposed " It is evident, however, that UKIP has lost no time in distancing itself from this"

seems to be this statement

“The comments in Geoff Clark’s personal manifesto regarding abortion do not represent party policy. As in any party, our members have a range of views and opinions which may not always accord with party policy. Geoff makes clear that this is a personal manifesto, not a party document. Geoff is a hard-working local activist who would make an excellent councillor.”

so he would make an "excellent" councillor ? hummm hardly "distancing" then is it ?

(http://www.gravesendreporter.co.uk/n...date_1_1745952)

[gurnemanz]

The advance of the ghastly UKIP is enough to make me feel sorry for the Lib Dems and consider voting for them again, after all.

[Lateralthinking1]

Even Griffin's appalled -

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2012/12/nick-griffin-geoffrey-clark-nigel-farage-ukip/

.......But from the Lib Dems no comment.

It's a funny old world.

I don't think that any political party has credibility now. There is some uneasiness in the general public, not wholly acknowledged, that the problem is with representative democracy itself. That is a very big problem in the making. The French and the Italians have become accustomed over many years to expecting very little from their politicians but for all of the cynicism the British public still wants to believe that there are a few good politicians. With each year that passes, that belief is more difficult to maintain.