Plebs 0 Toffs 1?

[scottycelt]

Maybe that's why scotty put ' ' either side of "us".

Anyway, whilst "plebby" might sound and indeed be somewhat unattractive, surely "toffee" is far more appealing?...

It certainly was when McCowans was around ... 3d for a bar, and 4d with a chocolate coating ... ah, the 'good old days' ... they even had donkeys on Elie beach, then. :ok:

[Ferretfancy]

The Channel 4 News coverage does seem to have opened a rather sizable can of worms.

This may be a very serious event indeed, so why am I wondering why Channel 4 News devoted almost their entire bulletin to it ?

[mangerton]

It certainly was when McCowans was around ... 3d for a bar, and 4d with a chocolate coating ... ah, the 'good old days' ... they even had donkeys on Elie beach, then. :ok:

You were obviously a plutocrat, scotty. 4d for the chocolate coating, forsooth! I could rarely rise to that, but you could always get a penny dainty from the same stable! I don't remember donkeys at Elie, but I do remember ponies and the open air pool at Prestwick.

[teamsaint]

This may be a very serious event indeed, so why am I wondering why Channel 4 News devoted almost their entire bulletin to it ?

probably all quiet in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Iran, and so on.:erm:

[amateur51]

It's not a sneer, amsey, you little leek, you ... the Labour Party is described in WIKI as 'centre-left' ... I think that is a description to which most reasonably perceptive observers would probably ascribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)

Logically ... I know that established and recognised concept will almost certainly be dismissed as nonsense by your goodself and others here ... if there is a 'centre-left' there must also be a 'left' as indeed a 'right'. There are always extremes in such matters. Sometimes politicians in largely centrist parties play to the extremists on the wings in order to curry votes and support.

Dennis Skinner, a proud and dauntless Man of the Left if ever there were one, is always going on about 'toffs' and sometimes Ed feels the need to rally the troops and indulge in the same nonsense. Cameron does the same with his being 'tough with Europe' .. a godsend to the ears of the largely xenophobic 'right'.

Haven't you ever noticed ... ?

Scotty my little sgian-dubh (source: Wiki, your fave, scotty :winkeye:) my plaint is not with your use of the word 'left', it is with your use of the term 'the left' as I said in my message #24 - what does it mean in contemporary politics??!! You (and the disappeared poster from Derbyshire) seem to know for you use it often enough, but you do not enlighten the rest of us :erm::whistle:

[amateur51]

there there, dear, you wouldn't understand.

What a Silly Billy :biggrin:

[ahinton]

Without wishing to throw a spanner into the works of this thread, I'm nevertheless inclined to mention that it occurred to me long ago that, as a casual observation of the musical tastes of some toffs identifies them as plebs, the two categories are by no means mutually exclusive...

[scottycelt]

You were obviously a plutocrat, scotty. 4d for the chocolate coating, forsooth! I could rarely rise to that, but you could always get a penny dainty from the same stable! I don't remember donkeys at Elie, but I do remember ponies and the open air pool at Prestwick.

Yes, I may even have been considered the Scottish equivalent of a 'toff' by some of my toddling peers, mangerton, as they jealously observed me guzzling my way through that superior chocolate-coated confectionery. I do remember those marvellous big 1d dainties (without chocolate). When I was a bit older I used to cycle from my home in Clarkston over Eaglesham and Fenwick Moors, have an Irn-Bru in Kilmarnock, before continuing onto either Troon or Prestwick and gaze in wonder at the towering magnificence of Goatfell and her sister island peaks rising abruptly from the bracing waters of the incomparable Firth of Clyde.

Last year I was shocked to discover the existence of motorways, by-passes, wind farms and many other scenic polluters that now exist en route. All that is left are the sweet memories of the once-possible trip often made by a proud youngster who was the lucky owner of a second-hand bike with impressively-drooped handlebars!

Progress ... :cool:

[scottycelt]

Scotty my little sgian-dubh (source: Wiki, your fave, scotty :winkeye:) my plaint is not with your use of the word 'left', it is with your use of the term 'the left' as I said in my message #24 - what does it mean in contemporary politics??!! You (and the disappeared poster from Derbyshire) seem to know for you use it often enough, but you do not enlighten the rest of us :erm::whistle:

But, amsey, words can have various meanings in the English language ... and 'left' is no exception. It can be a common and broad (and very useful) term for those of a particular political and economic ethos. The same is true of 'right' .

You and MrGG keep referring to an unconnected 'poster from Derbyshire, 'Professor' and even sometimes mention him by name which is all very bewildering.

Simon (his correct forum name) and I agree on some things and disagree on others. That seems a pretty healthy balance to me. It is true that neither of us ever seem to agree with you and Mr GG, or maybe it's more the other way around?

I know it's irritating, amsey, but neither Simon and I are ever likely to stop using commonly-used words like 'left' merely because rather more sensitive forum members suddenly find them inconvenient. and even somewhat distressing. As far as I'm aware neither Simon nor myself was responsible for the introduction of this now apparently shockingly offensive four-letter word to the English language.

Enlightened now ... ? :winkeye:

[MrGongGong]

But, amsey, words can have various meanings in the English language ...

NO please stop or you know what's going to happen on Friday :devil:

actually Scotty you will find that we have agreed about various things concerning Europe
but as the end is nigh would should I go for Talisker or something more exotic ?

[An_Inspector_Calls]

The Channel 4 News coverage does seem to have opened a rather sizable can of worms.

As did this morning's Today programme.

I do hope we're not going to forget the strange coincidence that the two police officers that really(?) were in Downing Street managed to leak their identical accounts of the matter at more or less the same time to the exact same newspaper (The Sun).

[Lateralthinking1]

Whatever the rights and wrongs in this case, I just hope that he isn't made into a saint:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5431697/MPs-expenses-Andrew-Mitchell-claimed-over-19000-on-cleaning-decorating-and-gardening.html#

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8069854/Cabinet-minister-has-investments-in-offshore-tax-haven.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325369/Andrew-Mitchell-faces-questions-Chocfinger-lobbying-Ghana.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214367/Andrew-Mitchell-trips-Rwanda-16m-aid-handout-Friendship-leader-hardline-regime-revealed.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/sep/24/andrew-mitchell-profile-thrasher-rugby

[Ferretfancy]

Glancing at the picture of HMQ and her cabinet on the front page this morning, I'm reminded of the immortal Al Reed's line -- " There was enough said at our Edie's Wedding"

Or possibly Hilaire Belloc:-

"Lord Heygate had a troubled face
His furniture was commonplace-
The sort of Peer who well might pass
For someone of the middle class.
I do not think you want to hear
About this unimportant Peer"

[ahinton]

But, amsey, words can have various meanings in the English language ... and 'left' is no exception. It can be a common and broad (and very useful) term for those of a particular political and economic ethos. The same is true of 'right' .

If you read am51's post more carefully, you will note that his "plaint is not with your use of the word 'left' (but) with your use of the term 'the left'" and that he continued by asking you - unsuccessfully so far - "what does it (i.e. "the left") mean in contemporary politics?

You and MrGG keep referring to an unconnected 'poster from Derbyshire, 'Professor' and even sometimes mention him by name which is all very bewildering.

Not to most of us!

Simon (his correct forum name) and I agree on some things and disagree on others. That seems a pretty healthy balance to me. It is true that neither of us ever seem to agree with you and Mr GG, or maybe it's more the other way around?

I know it's irritating, amsey, but neither Simon and I are

neither Simon nor I is

ever likely to stop using commonly-used words like 'left' merely because rather more sensitive forum members suddenly find them inconvenient. and even somewhat distressing. As far as I'm aware neither Simon nor myself was responsible for the introduction of this now apparently shockingly offensive four-letter word to the English language.

Again, I refer you to that part of am51's post which I quoted above; it is your use of "the left" and "the right" which he clearly finds questionable, which in the present British political climate seems also perfectly understandable. I also drew attention to the frequently encountered instances of adjectival knee-jerking wherewith each is beleaguered, as in "the loony left" and "the xenophobic right", neither of which assists the cause of their use as not all Socialists are "loonies" and not all high Tories are "xenophobic"; en blanc et noir may be acceptable in Debussy but holds no water in intelligent political discussion.

Enlightened now ... ? :winkeye:

Obviously not and with ample reason, as I hope to have made clear!

[MrGongGong]

If you read am51's post more carefully, you will note that his "plaint is not with your use of the word 'left' (but) with your use of the term 'the left'" and that he continued by asking you - unsuccessfully so far - "what does it (i.e. "the left") mean in contemporary politics?

Absolutely :biggrin:

Not to most of us!

:whistle:


some people take their own opinions far too seriously