Plebs 0 Toffs 1?

[ahinton]

Whatever the rights and wrongs in this case, I just hope that he isn't made into a saint:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5431697/MPs-expenses-Andrew-Mitchell-claimed-over-19000-on-cleaning-decorating-and-gardening.html#

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/8069854/Cabinet-minister-has-investments-in-offshore-tax-haven.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325369/Andrew-Mitchell-faces-questions-Chocfinger-lobbying-Ghana.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214367/Andrew-Mitchell-trips-Rwanda-16m-aid-handout-Friendship-leader-hardline-regime-revealed.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...thrasher-rugby

I think that the risk that his canonisation by the head of a church that's not been the established on in Britain for quite some time is rather less than likely, regardless of the above or indeed of the true or indeed untrue circumstances of Plebgate.

[scottycelt]

NO please stop or you know what's going to happen on Friday :devil:

actually Scotty you will find that we have agreed about various things concerning Europe
but as the end is nigh would should I go for Talisker or something more exotic ?

Yes, good ol' Europe ... how could I forget, Mr GG!

I'm happy enough with Bells but I was always very easy to please ... can you suggest something (anything) that might put Member Ahinton to sleep for a couple of days as I can't even wait for the expected blessed relief on Friday.:winkeye:

[MrGongGong]

Yes, good ol' Europe ... how could I forget, Mr GG!

I'm happy enough with Bells but I was always very easy to please ... can you suggest something (anything) that might put Member Ahinton to sleep for a couple of days as I can't even wait for the expected blessed relief on Friday.:winkeye:

It's Bondie day on Radio 3 ?

(now that would be great played by Fretwork :biggrin:

[amateur51]

But, amsey, words can have various meanings in the English language ... and 'left' is no exception. It can be a common and broad (and very useful) term for those of a particular political and economic ethos. The same is true of 'right' .

You and MrGG keep referring to an unconnected 'poster from Derbyshire, 'Professor' and even sometimes mention him by name which is all very bewildering.

Simon (his correct forum name) and I agree on some things and disagree on others. That seems a pretty healthy balance to me. It is true that neither of us ever seem to agree with you and Mr GG, or maybe it's more the other way around?

I know it's irritating, amsey, but neither Simon and I are ever likely to stop using commonly-used words like 'left' merely because rather more sensitive forum members suddenly find them inconvenient. and even somewhat distressing. As far as I'm aware neither Simon nor myself was responsible for the introduction of this now apparently shockingly offensive four-letter word to the English language.

Enlightened now ... ? :winkeye:

I give up - your stupidity is becoming toxic!

[scottycelt]

If you read am51's post more carefully, you will note that his "plaint is not with your use of the word 'left' (but) with your use of the term 'the left'" and that he continued by asking you - unsuccessfully so far - "what does it (i.e. "the left") mean in contemporary politics?

I suggest you read my post(s) every bit as 'carefully ' as you do am51's ... :laugh:

My posts acknowledged the fact that there are .several meanings of the word.and one is extensively used by politicians, commentators, authors, etc to broadly describe those of a largely 'socialist' or 'liberal' mindset. Even these terms have a broad application. For example, the aforementioned Skinner calls himself a 'socialist' ... so does Alistair Darling ... as mentioned earlier both Redwood and Clarke call themselves 'Tory' but one is much nearer the centre ground of politics than the other.

So one could easily argue (and I do) that the terms Left, Right & Centre are sometimes more meaningfully accurate than Party Label.

I accept that any label can never tell the whole truth about the person. I'm happy myself to be accused of being a 'centrist' as that is a largely accurate description of my political views, though I may be right-of-centre on some issues and left-of-centre on others,.

If 'Centrists' like myself exist therefore quite logically one assumes so must 'Leftists' and 'Rightists'.

Where is the great problem for you, here, ahinton ... ?

[amateur51]

I suggest you read my post(s) every bit as 'carefully ' as you do am51's ... :laugh:

My posts acknowledged the fact that there are .several meanings of the word.and one is extensively used by politicians, commentators, authors, etc to broadly describe those of a largely 'socialist' or 'liberal' mindset. Even these terms have a broad application. For example, the aforementioned Skinner calls himself a 'socialist' ... so does Alistair Darling ... as mentioned earlier both Redwood and Clarke call themselves 'Tory' but one is much nearer the centre ground of politics than the other.

So one could easily argue (and I do) that the terms Left, Right & Centre are sometimes more meaningfully accurate than Party Label.

I accept that any label can never tell the whole truth about the person. I'm happy myself to be accused of being a 'centrist' as that is a largely accurate description of my political views, though I may be right-of-centre on some issues and left-of-centre on others,.

If 'Centrists' like myself exist therefore quite logically one assumes so must 'Leftists' and 'Rightists'.

Where is the great problem for you, here, ahinton ... ?

Mrs scottycelt must truly be some sort of saint to put up with this tediosity, especially when it gets down to Last Word Syndrome :biggrin:

[ahinton]

Yes, good ol' Europe ... how could I forget, Mr GG!

I'm happy enough with Bells but I was always very easy to please ... can you suggest something (anything) that might put Member Ahinton to sleep for a couple of days as I can't even wait for the expected blessed relief on Friday.:winkeye:

Unless and until anyone acceeds to your request, I can only say that you should develop greater patience; 48 hours or so is not even as long a time as is a week is said to be in leftist, rightist or centrist politics...

[ahinton]

I suggest you read my post(s) every bit as 'carefully ' as you do am51's ... :laugh:

Oh, but I do, scotty, I do!

My posts acknowledged the fact that there are .several meanings of the word.and one is extensively used by politicians, commentators, authors, etc to broadly describe those of a largely 'socialist' or 'liberal' mindset. Even these terms have a broad application. For example, the aforementioned Skinner calls himself a 'socialist' ... so does Alistair Darling ... as mentioned earlier both Redwood and Clarke call themselves 'Tory' but one is much nearer the centre ground of politics than the other.

So one could easily argue (and I do) that the terms Left, Right & Centre are sometimes more meaningfully accurate than Party Label.

That's as maybe, but it nevertheless represents a gross over-simplification, specifically because each individual serving politician in government is likely to have what some would see as more "right" wing views on some subjects than on others; no two MPs or Lords can be categorised as having identical views on everything and some are more loyal to their parties over some issues than they are on others.

I accept that any label can never tell the whole truth about the person. I'm happy myself to be accused of being a 'centrist' as that is a largely accurate description of my political views, though I may be right-of-centre on some issues and left-of-centre on others

Ah, at last you've got it!

If 'Centrists' like myself exist therefore quite logically one assumes so must 'Leftists' and 'Rightists'.

It would be hard to imagine that anyone else quite like you exists, scotty!

Where is the great problem for you, here, ahinton ... ?

Please read the above.

[ahinton]

Mrs scottycelt must truly be some sort of saint to put up with this tediosity, especially when it gets down to Last Word Syndrome :biggrin:

Well, at least she's married to someone entitled to ensure her canonisation!

[scottycelt]

Mrs scottycelt must truly be some sort of saint to put up with this tediosity, especially when it gets down to Last Word Syndrome :biggrin:

Mrs Scottycelt would be appalled at such a description, amsey ... a lady always has the last word in her own house and quite rightly so!

Neither she or myself have ever believed in your 'equality' nonsense!

[amateur51]

If you read am51's post more carefully, you will note that his "plaint is not with your use of the word 'left' (but) with your use of the term 'the left'" and that he continued by asking you - unsuccessfully so far - "what does it (i.e. "the left") mean in contemporary politics?


Not to most of us!


neither Simon nor I is


Again, I refer you to that part of am51's post which I quoted above; it is your use of "the left" and "the right" which he clearly finds questionable, which in the present British political climate seems also perfectly understandable. I also drew attention to the frequently encountered instances of adjectival knee-jerking wherewith each is beleaguered, as in "the loony left" and "the xenophobic right", neither of which assists the cause of their use as not all Socialists are "loonies" and not all high Tories are "xenophobic"; en blanc et noir may be acceptable in Debussy but holds no water in intelligent political discussion.


Obviously not and with ample reason, as I hope to have made clear!

Many thanks for all this hard work, ahinton - I was beginning to wonder that I wasn't making myself clear. Dealing with scotty sometimes feels like a rerun of Gaslight :ok::biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7FBSFRUj6s

[teamsaint]

Mrs Scottycelt would be appalled at such a description, amsey ... a lady always has the last word in her own house and quite rightly so!

Neither she or myself have ever believed in your 'equality' nonsense!

oh, like all the politicians, you don't have to believe in it, just SAY you believe in it !:winkeye:
(not that they ever tell porkies,or get the truth covered up, oh no no no no no, perish the thought etc !)

[scottycelt]

...Ah, at last you've got it!

Yes, well done!

It would be hard to imagine that anyone else quite like you exists, scotty!

That, very thankfully, applies to each and every one of us, ahinton ... ?

Please read the above

What ... AGAIN?!! :yikes:

[ahinton]

What ... AGAIN?!! :yikes:

Only if there might be some chance of you getting more out a second reading than of a first (which may indeed be open to doubt).

What's with this "equality nonsense" of apparent adherence to which you accuse am51? What do you mean by this and what do you assume that am51 means by it? As to that part of it that might relate to who has the last word on anything in a household, I would personally feel quite wary of a situation in which that right was always and only ever accorded to one person within it! That said, since it was in any case the matter of Mrs Scottycelt's saintly qualities that gave rise to this part of the discussion and no one has suggested that you are yourself a saint, it might at least be argued that equality of saintliness doesn't apply in this case...

Anyway, to return (what a relief!) to the topic, isn't it now high time for a plebiscite?

[teamsaint]

Only if there might be some chance of you getting more out a second reading than of a first (which may indeed be open to doubt).

What's with this "equality nonsense" of apparent adherence to which you accuse am51? What do you mean by this and what do you assume that am51 means by it? As to that part of it that might relate to who has the last word on anything in a household, I would personally feel quite wary of a situation in which that right was always and only ever accorded to one person within it! That said, since it was in any case the matter of Mrs Scottycelt's saintly qualities that gave rise to this part of the discussion and no one has suggested that you are yourself a saint, it might at least be argued that equality of saintliness doesn't apply in this case...

Anyway, to return (what a relief!) to the topic, isn't it now high time for a plebiscite?

:biggrin:

I did think up a genuinely feeble "toff based " reply, but best not I think......