Teachers: Are Gove and Cameron listening?

[teamsaint]

I spoke with the head of music at a large secondary school in East Anglia this morning who tells me that when he leaves at the end of this academic year the school will stop having a music department all together as it's not a "priority" ........... I don't know whether to laugh, cry or to rage ? There's no point at all in expecting any of our politicians to do anything about this either :sadface:

Is some sort of provision not compulsory any more then?
or will it be provided by Geography teachers, who always seem to have to do the filling in?
(no offence to Geog teachers meant, they have to be commendably flexible!)

[MrGongGong]

Is some sort of provision not compulsory any more then?
or will it be provided by Geography teachers, who always seem to have to do the filling in?
(no offence to Geog teachers meant, they have to be commendably flexible!)

No
Academies can do what they like
"Free" schools can employ anyone with a CRB so you don't even need to have any experience of teaching at all

I always thought Geography teachers taught "colouring in" anyway ? (at least according to my sister-in-law who teaches A level Geography :whistle:)

[teamsaint]

No
Academies can do what they like
"Free" schools can employ anyone with a CRB so you don't even need to have any experience of teaching at all

I always thought Geography teachers taught "colouring in" anyway ? (at least according to my sister-in-law who teaches A level Geography :whistle:)

so they could do the Art, and specialise in World Music !!
I freely admit I haven't looked at free schools and what they can/can't do, since my own kids are all done with school now....no doubt they are essentially divisive.
Problem is, I don't like compulsion, and I don't like the savagery of "markets" in things like education(which aren't usually markets in fact)......Ardcarp did an excellent post on this a while back....

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Er - were Gove's measures included in the Tories' pre-election manifesto?

If not.....

No idea; who cares?

Do you ever talk with teachers and listen AIC?

Members of our family are teachers.

eigthobstruction: I'm not sure who is doing the attacking here (note your language - the fact that it's seen as a fight), the teachers or government. Considering the teachers supposedly think they are a professional body, their unionised behaviour does little to support that claim. All my working life I've belonged to a union of professional engineers. We've never struck, never had any open confrontation with our dastardly owners (albeit there have been numerous sharp differences of opinion) and yet our pay rates are good and the union functions as a body encouraging safe working practices, high standards of professional behaviour, dissemination and discussion of company objectives - everything a union should really be doing. Someone has mentioned the BMA: are they doing the same thing as us engineers? The teaching unions are part of the problem: sort it out!

[teamsaint]

Just one difference in professional relationships with employers is control of entry to the profession.
For example, there is clearly, and has been for a long time, an under supply of medical Doctors from the UK universities. I don't doubt for a minute that the BMA had been pretty happy with this, since we know the result of under supply.(and spectacularly in their case).

Teachers have not been in a postion to do much re control of numbers being trained I guess, so they need to protect themselves some other way. Perhaps though, they should just have trusted the good nature of those in charge in whitehall, and nice people like Chris Woodhead.

Also, of course, in teaching over 90% of jobs are public sector, so there is no real market as there presumably is for engineers.

One of the legitimate functions of a union is to work for good pay and conditions for members.If they have them, (like engineers) then they can concentrate more on other work related business .

[eighthobstruction]

#AICalls Besides the obvious H&Safety regs, British/EU Standards did the govt ever tell you how to do your job, and constantly change the methods by which you work or structure and remuneration of your tenure??....

[jean]

there is a school of thought that some affluent parents have, quite wrong in my mind, that they have more chance of getting their kids into "elite" universities if they are at a state 6th form. Hence in places like Winchester there is a bit of a post 16 drift towards State 6th forms.

No wonder they had spare places for our girls!

You have to do what you have to do, Jean. We all have to take pragmatic decisions I guess...

If I'm really honest, I have to admit that it wasn't just the availability of my subject, but the fact that teaching in that environment was far more pleasurable, and the discipline problems were far fewer, than in other types of school I've taught in.

I have been an absolutely brilliant teacher in some environments, and an abysmal one in others, which is why I consider that the easy labelling of teachers as 'good' or 'bad' is so much rubbish.

[An_Inspector_Calls]

#AICalls Besides the obvious H&Safety regs, British/EU Standards did the govt ever tell you how to do your job, and constantly change the methods by which you work or structure and remuneration of your tenure??....

Oh nothing too significant, just the odd privatisation . . .

[eighthobstruction]

aah a joyous improvement all round....

[An_Inspector_Calls]

Teachers have not been in a postion to do much re control of numbers being trained I guess, so they need to protect themselves some other way. Perhaps though, they should just have trusted the good nature of those in charge in whitehall, and nice people like Chris Woodhead.
One of the legitimate functions of a union is to work for good pay and conditions for members.If they have them, (like engineers) then they can concentrate more on other work related business .

Come off it. From the teacher pay scales: qualified teachers are on a scale which will rapidly get them to £31,552; AST teachers are on a long scale stretching from £37,461 to £56,950; head teachers go from £43, 379 to £105,097. In short: they're well paid.

Also, of course, in teaching over 90% of jobs are public sector, so there is no real market as there presumably is for engineers.

I think one may well be being created if I read DracoM's post correctly.

[teamsaint]

Come off it. From the teacher pay scales: qualified teachers are on a scale which will rapidly get them to £31,552; AST teachers are on a long scake stretching from £37,461 to £56,950; head teachers go from £43, 379 to £105,097. In short: they're well paid.
I think one may well be being created if I read DracoM's post correctly.

I don't think that lots of teachers have too big a problem with current pay rates. As you say, there is decent money to be earned. protecting that is another matter. Teachers pensions ARE under attack, even after very reasonable concessions in the last few years on retiremant ages.. The contribution rises are 50% (roughly 6% up to 9%) I think. This DOES amout to a substantial pay cut. On35K Pa that is £1000 and that is a lot.

If there is a market in teacher salaries as you suggest, and as in free schools , no need for quailfication, standards will plummet.
Which would suite dave and the rest just fine, I would think. Less competition for those prized Uni places.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Don't wprry, Teamsaint. The reaction was both predictable and expected.

[teamsaint]

Don't wprry, Teamsaint. The reaction was both predictable and expected.

Oh, I'm not worried, but we have to stand together. I'm not a teacher !!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... but we have to stand together.

Indeed, we do.

[handsomefortune]

I have been an absolutely brilliant teacher in some environments, and an abysmal one in others, which is why I consider that the easy labelling of teachers as 'good' or 'bad' is so much rubbish.

agreed jean :ok:, only someone who doesn't mind appearing very foolish, and ignorant of education itself would make the good/bad polarisation initially.

though some might suggest that this is about 'the quality of teaching', it is not of course. it is more than likely about the quality of creeping to superiors, particularly those interested in education only in terms of business, and profit. but all teaching staff and pupils are meanwhile caught up in the increasing chaos, if they haven't left already.

what a huge upheaval and waste for everyone currently involved!

AND just supposing, for instance, that tories lose the next election. what then? and just suppose that long term the new academies can't be paid for, survive economically after all - (like some hospitals, and sports stadiums) what then?

why should education be slap bang in the middle of so many 'ifs' and 'buts'? :erm: