Teachers: Are Gove and Cameron listening?

[jean]

Middle class people speak bad English too, but I fail to see why what is often lazy speaking should be preserved...

You mean all those lazy people who can't be bothered to pronounce more than half the letters in Marjoribanks, Featherstoneghaugh, Cholmondely and so on?

And I heard the egregious Mr Gwynne on Radio 4 not so long ago insisting that to pronounce participle as a quadrisyllable was just wrong.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And I heard the egregious Mr Gwynne on Radio 4 not so long ago insisting that to pronounce participle as a quadrisyllable was just wrong.

So how did she pronounce it?

[jean]

He insisted that the first 'i' must not be pronounced at all - part'ciple he thought was the only 'correct' pronunciation.

[jean]

And since I have mentioned Mr. Gwynne, who seems to be everywhere at the moment, there's this:

Academics chastised for bad grammar in letter attacking Michael Gove

...Gwynne, author of Gwynne's Grammar, highlighted a particular paragraph from the academics' letter for criticism:

"Much of it demands too much too young. This will put pressure on teachers to rely on rote learning without understanding. Inappropriate demands will lead to failure and demoralisation. The learner is largely ignored. Little account is taken of children's potential interests and capacities, or that young children need to relate abstract ideas to their experience, lives and activity."

Gwynne's attack opened with a consideration of the phrase "demands too much too young".

"Presumably they mean something like 'demands too much when children are too young to be ready for so much', but, as worded, it simply is not English," he said. "In that sentence as worded, 'too young' can only be two adverbs, 'too' qualifying the adverb 'young', and 'young' qualifying the verb 'demands', as would, for instance, 'soon' or 'early'. But 'young' is an adjective, and cannot ever be an adverb. And it certainly is not doing the work of an adjective in that sentence, because there is no noun that could be 'understood' and which would turn that sentence into English"...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If Mr G wants to attack Mr G, that's fine, but surely it's the nitty-gritty that's the problem in MG's case.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think Alpie should explain what he means by "bad English"... :erm:

I think you know the answer to that. :winkeye:

[vinteuil]

.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/02/no-correct-grammar-martin-gwynne

[Serial_Apologist]

.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...-martin-gwynne

I feel sorry for foreigners trying to learn English...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I feel sorry for foreigners trying to learn English...

That doesn't matter, just as long as the "anything goes" mob are in the driving seat. Why else do we have to put up with the nightmarish "English" of Steph McGovern? I'm a northerner too, but I like to think I can be understood in the rest of the U.K.

[french frank]

Rosen again:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/10/michael-gove-grammar

[jean]

And here's Mr Gwynne's Good Grammar Test:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationquestions/9987757/Good-grammar-test-can-you-pass.html

Much as you might expect, except that it's difficult to see what the fact that Evelyn can be a male or female name has to do with English grammar - or the fact that the names Amanda and Miranda are Latin gerundives.

The interesting point about those last two is that they mean, respectively, she who is to be loved and she who is to be marvelled at - but he doesn't bother to tell us that.

And with his vaunted knowledge of Latin, he should really have known that the Gerundive isn't a mood.

Be careful of the company you keep, Mr Gove.

[eighthobstruction]

Be careful of the company you keep, Mr Gove.

I believe he may be on good terms with the Muppets....the erudite, eloquent ones of course....

[Historian]

I never know how accurately things get reported, but if the rise of Hitler is really being taught in terms of the Mr Men I think that is rather concerning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22454219

As you say, if the rise of Hitler is really being taught in this way then it might be of concern. However, the lesson is actually about finding a way for International G.C.S.E. pupils to explain the rise of Hitler in a way comprehensible to pupils in their last year of primary education. It is therefore something in the way of a revision lesson, involving some very sophisticated thinking skills, which would take place at the end of their course.

This is another example of gross misrepresentation by the Secretary of State for Education, who is careless with the facts when they conflict with his version of the truth. Russel Tarr, who developed the idea, has an excellent record of achievement in education. The original B.B.C report failed to mention any of this, perhaps being the sort of behaviour from news organisations deprecated on 'The Bloody News' thread. It was subsequently updated, as was the report in the Guardian.

There is a place for a reasoned debate about the teaching of History in this country. However, Mr. Gove has already made it quite clear that he is not interested.

There is a longer discussion on the teaching of History elsewhere on the forum for those who would like to know more.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

However, Mr. Gove has already made it quite clear that he is not interested.

That just about sums up his overall attitude.

[Historian]

Or is it this: