Teachers: Are Gove and Cameron listening?

[Historian]

As a spoken form it is already standard in it that "would've" and "would of" have the same pronunciation. This is the reason for the confusion in the first place. It only becomes an error when written down as "would of".

I do not think this will ever become a standard written form.

My apologies; I misused the expression 'standard form', I think. However, judging from marking pupils' books, "would of" is very prevalent in the written work of those under the age of 18. So, maybe not a 'standard form', but one that may well compete with the correct version. Perhaps Mr. Gove's reforms will reverse this process.

[jean]

...judging from marking pupils' books, "would of" is very prevalent in the written work of those under the age of 18...

You presumably teach them that the form is not acceptable.

But they don't learn.

How can that problem be addressed?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You presumably teach them that the form is not acceptable.

But they don't learn.

How can that problem be addressed?

It's when the teachers write "would of" that problems arise. Pupils learn by example.

[Historian]

You presumably teach them that the form is not acceptable.

But they don't learn.

How can that problem be addressed?

I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I might incriminate myself.

Oh... all right then.

I am a History Teacher. However, 'Literacy' is (or should be) a 'Whole School' focus, meaning that all staff should do what they can to improve pupils' use of English. More importantly, I feel that bad grammar holds people back. So, whenever I have the time I will correct errors including (but not solely); would of, theyre [sic] (and variants) and aberrant apostrophes. On occasion I will include short sessions in lessons which focus on common errors. In this way I hope to influence the pupils whom I teach.

That said, I cannot spend too long on this aspect of my teaching, as it secondary to teaching History. Although I will correct errors in historical vocabulary I simply do not have the time to correct all the myriad spelling and grammatical errors which I encounter. If all the teachers in my school followed a similar policy then more progress might be made. This assumes that said teachers are au fait with Englsih grammar. By the way, I make no claim to being an expert.

However, I do feel that by the time most pupils reach Year Seven (generally the first year of secondary education) then this groundwork should already have been laid. My efforts will help, but I do wonder what takes place in some primary schools, or even some secondary school English departments.

Perhaps I am being unrealistic. Undoubtedly there are many schools where teaching correct use of the apostrophe (for example) is a long way down the list of requirements. Utimately I am only one teacher, in one school. I am sure there are many like me, but as to whether we form a majority, or a diminishing minority, I would not like to say.

[gurnemanz]

Attempts really are made to teach the rules of grammar and usage. The FE College where I taught before I retired ran an Access to Higher Education course aimed at giving a university entrance qualification to those students who had missed out on A Levels the first time around. I was asked to run a Study Skills module. As well as how to write an essay, take notes etc we covered grammar and punctuation; "today we come to the semi-colon". The students, mostly in their early twenties, actually seemed to lap it up.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Earlier this week, I heard a colleague who works in an "academy" regretting the perceived incompetence of the head teacher who led the governors down the academy road.
But the final comment was: "as least he insn't as bad as Gove".

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I notice he's been spouting again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/25/michael-gove-royal-college-teaching-unions

[teamsaint]

Ah a "growing consensus". So not yet a consensus... or just made up?

Bit like the justification for the upcoming no fly/bombing/invasion of Syria.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Definitely made up, as are his assumptions about 450,000 balloted members of the teacher unions he slanders.

I bet Gove was in Slytherin. :devil:

[greenilex]

On the matter of spoken vernacular and the related spelling problems in school: the mother-tongue as spoken in the home is a precious possession for all and can easily be insulted. It is up to teachers to convey that middle-class spoken and written norms can be an aid to communication but are not the Gold Standard or the be-all and end-all of our efforts. Really not.

[mercia]

I never know how accurately things get reported, but if the rise of Hitler is really being taught in terms of the Mr Men I think that is rather concerning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22454219

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/what-does-it-mean-to-be-an-educated-person

however 'Lord of the Flies' as a secondary rather than primary school text I think has been a fact for decades

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10046694/Michael-Gove-pupils-taught-about-Hitler-using-Mr-Men-characters.html

[greenilex]

OK. Mr G. will please deliver a short U-tube spiel on Lord of the Flies to explain its position in the canon and its distastefulness to choirschool bullies. Cultural snobbery combined with lack of background knowledge is despicable in a teacher-training aspirant and disastrous in his position.

Gnash grump.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

On the matter of spoken vernacular and the related spelling problems in school: the mother-tongue as spoken in the home is a precious possession for all and can easily be insulted. It is up to teachers to convey that middle-class spoken and written norms can be an aid to communication but are not the Gold Standard or the be-all and end-all of our efforts. Really not.

Middle class people speak bad English too, but I fail to see why what is often lazy speaking should be preserved. I remain to be persuaded otherwise, but it seems a bit like prserving lethal viruses in laboratories. Probably pointless and with long-term negative consequences.

[vinteuil]

Middle class people speak bad English too.

I think Alpie should explain what he means by "bad English"... :erm:

[amateur51]

I think Alpie should explain what he means by "bad English"... :erm:

Sssssh vints - you'll provoke scottycelt into a dictionary outburst :yikes::biggrin: