Teachers: Are Gove and Cameron listening?

[Guest]

An extract from President Obama's speech yesterday, after the school tragedy:

"............the teachers - men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfil their dreams."

Is there any chance of Gove and Cameron ever referring to teachers in this way? Is their confrontational stance alienating the entire teaching profession? Will we ever have a leader in this country with even half of Obama's charisma and statesmanship?

[DracoM]

No
Yes
No.

[BBMmk2]

An extract from President Obama's speech yesterday, after the school tragedy:

"............the teachers - men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfil their dreams."

Is there any chance of Gove and Cameron ever referring to teachers in this way? Is their confrontational stance alienating the entire teaching profession? Will we ever have a leader in this country with even half of Obama's charisma and statesmanship?

Obama was speaking as a father, here, not as President, but I donbt think Cameron et alo will.

[MrGongGong]

No
Yes
No.

to which I would add

No
yes
No

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

to which I would add

No
yes
No

Let's be more optimistic:

No.
Yes.
Probably not.

[Thropplenoggin]

Appalled by the event, but sadly not surprised.

Nor am I taken in by Obama's rhetoric. His press spokesman tested the waters before this speech by saying "this is not the day for that discussion" (gun control), which, as you can imagine, went down like a lead proverbal on Twitter and other media (see Gary Younge's article in The Guardian).

Of course, that noble statesman Obama said nothing about gun control regarding the two other mass homicides earlier this year (a screening of Batman at a cinema in Colorado; at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin) prior to the election. :whistle:

[Simon]

We have no kids at school, so are only interested in this vicariously, so to speak. There seem to be some good things about the current policy - for example, I'm a believer in giving people the freedom to manage their own schools in their own areas - but I most certainly don't believe that schools should be, or need to be, competitive in order to improve.

I'm not sure about performance-related pay replacing the guaranteed incremental annual steps, eithewr. It seems right to reward service in the classroom, but at the same time it seems right to reward ability and not reward incompetence, where they exist.

Some maintain that there's another agenda, and one reads all kinds of conspiracy theories. None, up to now, has convinced me, but it's not an area I've been involved in researching and I confess I'm not sure what the ultimate aims might be, other than cost-cutting.

I don't believe, though, in all the "Gove is an ogre" stuff: it's not logical that his aim is the destruction of the state education system: that would benefit nobody.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

ah if only our education system was devoted to children realising their dreams .......... and would the National Union of Teachers share such an aim ....

given the circumstances we may forgive The President his rhetorical flourishes but I doubt that the US system has that dream fulfilment as its aim either

alas it seems to me that education systems are all about meeting the needs of adults not children ....

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

I don't believe, though, in all the "Gove is an ogre" stuff: it's not logical that his aim is the destruction of the state education system: that would benefit nobody.

it would benefit some though Simon; all the nasty people who need to feel superior to others by negative contrast to their 'inferiors' living on the estates with their kids going to the bog standards ...

[Simon]

it would benefit some though Simon; all the nasty people who need to feel superior to others by negative contrast to their 'inferiors' living on the estates with their kids going to the bog standards ...

I see what you are saying but I don't think it realistic to consider this a motivation that would drive the wholesale destruction of a system. People with such warped views tend to want material benefits, I think. Anyway, they can already go to other schools, if they wish and can afford.

And not every family who sens offspring to a non-state school is rich, or snobby. Sometimes, their children get scholarships, like wot I did. And whatever my many faults, I aint no snob. Can't abide them! I'm even a member of LACS, to the disgust of a couple of my (snobby) neighbours and the incredulity of a couple of my (not very close) friends... I once went to the meet pub in a "keep cruelty history " T-shirt. :biggrin:


As for :

"alas it seems to me that education systems are all about meeting the needs of adults not children .... "

You aren't half right there, chum! :smiley:

[Serial_Apologist]

My childhood dreams were:

1) To play violin outside Barkers of kensington High Street

2) To be an engine driver.

:erm:

[gurnemanz]

I applaud Mr Gove for one thing - being the first Secretary of State to attempt to reverse the decline of modern language teaching in this country, but I can't summon up any enthusiasm for his policy of abolishing the role of elected local authorities and replacing them with profit-making private companies or for fining teachers who work to rule. I entered the teaching profession 40 years ago and don't think I would do so now. I still do a bit of private tuition but when I look at the way things are going, I am quite happy to be retired and out of his system - with time to listen to CDs and potter around on this Board ..... and travel around by bus.

[VodkaDilc]

I applaud Mr Gove for one thing - being the first Secretary of State to attempt to reverse the decline of modern language teaching in this country, but I can't summon up any enthusiasm for his policy of abolishing the role of elected local authorities and replacing them with profit-making private companies or for fining teachers who work to rule. I entered the teaching profession 40 years ago and don't think I would do so now. I still do a bit of private tuition but when I look at the way things are going, I am quite happy to be retired and out of his system - with time to listen to CDs and potter around on this Board ..... and travel around by bus.

Ditto - in virtually every detail!

[teamsaint]

My childhood dreams were:

1) To play violin outside Barkers of kensington High Street

2) To be an engine driver.

:erm:

well apart from the obvious omissions of playing footy, or opening the bowling for England, I reckon that is as good a list as anybody needs, S-A !

Oh, as for education...you only have to listen to Ken Robinson for 10 mins to realise how arse about face we have it.....and the system didn't just happen this way, it was designed, like all the other things that work badly in our world.

[scottycelt]

ah if only our education system was devoted to children realising their dreams .......... and would the National Union of Teachers share such an aim ....

given the circumstances we may forgive The President his rhetorical flourishes but I doubt that the US system has that dream fulfilment as its aim either

alas it seems to me that education systems are all about meeting the needs of adults not children ....

That's very true. Just as, in my experience, many businesses are mostly about meeting the needs of management careers rather than actually making the company more efficient and successful.

There are many dedicated teachers, I'm sure. Well, I know there are as I have one or two in my own family! It's also a safe bet that there are some very bad ones. This is true of any occupation.

Nurses, for example, are sometimes termed 'angels' by the media but nurses organisations detest the label mainly because they know it is simply not true. In any case, if I were to suddenly fall unconscious, I'd be rather more comfortable waking up to the sight of a nurse than an angel!

However, right now all thoughts and prayers are with the poor bereaved souls in Newtown, Connecticut. Unspeakable evil, the slaughter of terrified little innocents and staff merely going about their daily duties.