Gareth Williams Inquest

[amateur51]

... but equally, if our Services had wanted to eliminate him, they could easily have found a less baroque method, and one that left absolutely no traces.

I tend to think it was more probably the sad solitary end of a person with strange impulses.

I've tended to be rather suspicious of the 'large collection of expensive women's dresses' about which no-one else knew, apparently - smacks of a decoy.

Cross-posted with teams - great minds!

[teamsaint]

I would think that the security services would have every reason to make deaths like this look the way they do.
.
Discrediting the victim would be a pretty standard ploy, I would think?

there are a number of similar kinds of deaths, including Stephen Milligan.

[vinteuil]

... no, I don't share your (ams and teams) views on this. They seem more colourful than necessary.

[teamsaint]

Ok Vinny, you have a point, perhaps.

But IF you wanted to perpetrate this kind of crime, wouldn't it make sense to dress them up as suicide, or sex games gone wrong, or something?

And just to labour the point, I have never seen any evidence than Milligan was in the habit of indulging in he kind of behaviour that is supposed to have caused his death.

[vinteuil]

there are a number of similar kinds of deaths, including Stephen Milligan.

... which wd surely add weight to the notion that Gareth Williams also met a sad solitary end?

Or are you suggesting a larger conspiracy?

[teamsaint]

ok , its the Mail, and you can find a pattern if you want to , of course.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139799/Sex-spies-seven-suspicious-deaths-The-murky-waters-intelligence-world--coincidence-conspiracy.html

Exactly how common are these kinds of sex games, or thrill seeking?

[aeolium]

... but equally, if our Services had wanted to eliminate him, they could easily have found a less baroque method, and one that left absolutely no traces.

I tend to think it was more probably the sad solitary end of a person with strange impulses.

Possibly, but there are some pieces of evidence that do make that an implausible explanation, not least the lack of prints and the sheer difficulty of achieving that method of suicide as well as the coincidental sluggishness of his employers in checking up on him.

I agree the involvement of MI6 is unlikely but there is the possibility of other intelligence agencies or some other individual adept at removing evidence of his presence. No-one at the inquest (including the police) seems to have presented, or been able to present, a convincing account of how Williams' death could have occurred by his agency alone and that was why the coroner reached her verdict.

[french frank]

Exactly how common are these kinds of sex games, or thrill seeking?

No stats for the UK but a US study found 500-1,000 fatalities every year.

The original verdict was 'unnatural and likely to have been criminally mediated'. The coroner said there was insufficient evidence to record a verdict of unlawful killing. The probability, in her view, was that another person was involved but her conclusion was that the explanation would probably never be known.

The difference between her view and that of the police investigation having examined further evidence was that the police felt there was no other party involved.

[amateur51]

No stats for the UK but a US study found 500-1,000 fatalities every year.

The original verdict was 'unnatural and likely to have been criminally mediated'. The coroner said there was insufficient evidence to record a verdict of unlawful killing. The probability, in her view, was that another person was involved but her conclusion was that the explanation would probably never be known.

The difference between her view and that of the police investigation having examined further evidence was that the police felt there was no other party involved.

The coroner's verdict left the case unsolved and open to further investigation; the police investigation left the case unsolved but I assume that there is to be no further investigation.

Nice and tidy for the statistics then.

[Mr Pee]

The coroner's verdict left the case unsolved and open to further investigation; the police investigation left the case unsolved but I assume that there is to be no further investigation.

Nice and tidy for the statistics then.

Blame News International.

Go on, you know you want to.

[french frank]

Nice and tidy for the statistics then.

It isn't absolutely impossible that the evidence simply isn't there. That may be unsatisfactory to those who like answers to every question but that's the way things are.

[amateur51]

It isn't absolutely impossible that the evidence simply isn't there. That may be unsatisfactory to those who like answers to every question but that's the way things are.

Oh true enough but the operational difference between the coroner's verdict and that of the police is that the police can close the case and spend no more time on it.