We're All In This Together .....

[Thropplenoggin]

any link please, Noggin?(I am assuming that isn't a holiday snap of yours, since the trademark headgear is absent !)

:laugh:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/17/nick-clegg-lib-dems-record

[teamsaint]

Cheers.
What a load of drivel .
(Clegg I mean).

[ahinton]

This programme, tracing the origins of the economic crash in Spain, is well worth seeing imo. It describes the rise of the Spanish economy from a position of isolationist poverty under Franco to prosperity under democracy and the first decades of EU membership to the property bubble and crash in the last few years, to renewed poverty and near sovereign default today.

Thanks for this. I watched it yesterday. I think that it should have lessons for many other places but probably ones that are too late to be learned for anything useful to come out of the learning process. If Spain does not recover from its present parlous economic position and matters there worsen, the risks for the future of the Eurozone will inevitably be considerably greater than those that have surfaced as a consequence of the crises in Ireland, Portugal and Greece (and the likely one in the making in Italy) and may indeed prove ultimately to be the straw that breaks the Eurozone camel's back (not that Egypt is even in EU yet, let alone the Eurozone); the consequent risk that the possible depletion or even disintegration of the Eurozone may impact upon the very future of EU itself may not be dismissed lightly, any more than can be the even greater issue of the effect upon the Council of Europe.

If the very foundations of the Council of Europe risk being undermined by the unfolding of all of this, the prospects for everyone throughout Greater Europe - even those in the peak districts of Switzerland and Derbyshire - would be almost too horrific to contemplate, though whether that fact will prove to strike sufficiently alarming warnings as to ensure the due engagement of relevant minds in some action greater than the mere placing of strategic sticking plaster over this looming crisis remains to be seen.

If Catalunya does seek independence from Spain it will be in the same position as Scotland in having to reapply for membership of an EU that is being made ever more unstable by the events going on around it.

[handsomefortune]

'we're all in this together'!

This programme, tracing the origins of the economic crash in Spain, is well worth seeing imo. It describes the rise of the Spanish economy from a position of isolationist poverty under Franco to prosperity under democracy and the first decades of EU membership to the property bubble and crash in the last few years, to renewed poverty and near sovereign default today.

splendid!

thanks for that aeolium:ok:. (at least some of the new public architecture showed unique design skills, and tremendous imagination). the rest is absolutely tragic, and eerily familiar.

on the subject of the spanish building society finally absorbed by 'bankia' ....which then had to be bailed out, should i be newly wary of the co-operative bank? though our equivalent here was rbs, and northern rock, could it happen again?an over expanded co-operative bank absorbed by a 'bankia' type org in the future?

imo clegg's claims about his own 'victorious' welfare 'reform'.................what could be worse than what is already happening? nothing to crow about whatsoever.

[ahinton]

on the subject of the spanish building society finally absorbed by 'bankia' ....which then had to be bailed out, should i be newly wary of the co-operative bank? though our equivalent here was rbs, and northern rock, could it happen again?an over expanded co-operative bank absorbed by a 'bankia' type org in the future?

Not only could it happen again, it is already happening again and again and, if (or rather as) there are / will be banks involved, it will continue indefinitely to happen again; whilst banking regulation has been very lax in quite a few places, it will ultimately make little difference what regulatory régimes are put in place or how well they may happen to be run and independently policed, because the kinds of banking woes that we've seen and continue to see can only multiply and increase - it's the way that this kind of thing works and I do not see that this can ever be altered other than possibly in nature and scale. I don't see an end to this even when everything has gone bust, for there's always somewhere further down to go and we can almost guarantee that what's left of devastated banks and national economies will continue indefinitely to take us and themselves there.

[teamsaint]

Oh Look, George only wants the better off folks on the roads. because obviously the rest of us aren't paying our way, rich enough, trying hard enough or doing what they want.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ae6cc6a4-4b7c-11e2-88b5-00144feab49a.html

I can't think of anything else to say that doesn't involve what in football is known as "Foul and abusive language".

[teamsaint]

Some more people with whom we are in it together

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/9861350/Consumers-to-foot-4bn-bill-in-event-of-Big-Six-crash.html

How are consumers benefitting here?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Privatisation of the energy/utilities companies was one of the most short-sighted policies of the Thatcher era.
And that's saying something.

[ahinton]

Oh Look, George only wants the better off folks on the roads. because obviously the rest of us aren't paying our way, rich enough, trying hard enough or doing what they want.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ae6cc6a4-4b7c-11e2-88b5-00144feab49a.html

I can't think of anything else to say that doesn't involve what in football is known as "Foul and abusive language".

But there's already a toll on the M6 around Birmingham and toll motorways have been in operation in France for many years; the only difference there, of course, is that, although petrol prices are now as expensive or even more expensive than they are here (diesel prices are noticeably cheaper, however), road tax is minuscule compared to UK.

It's perhaps a good thing that he doesn't seem to want to extend this to tolls on all roads, especially now that, around where I am, it's been decided no loner to maintain unclassified roads so these already pothole-full things will eventually become unusable and, as I live on one, I suppose that eventually I'll either have to be stranded or pay for the maintenance myself.

[ahinton]

Privatisation of the energy/utilities companies was one of the most short-sighted policies of the Thatcher era.
And that's saying something.

I don't know about that; all that matters is that those organisations function as efficiently as possible, whether they're in public or private hands or a mix of the two. They're businesses, after all, irrespective of who owns them. You and I effectively now "own" shares in RBS; I didn't ask for mine, don't want them and wouldn't in any case be able to realise their value if the Government ever decided to sell it off at a fat profit...

[scottycelt]

I don't know about that; all that matters is that those organisations function as efficiently as possible, whether they're in public or private hands or a mix of the two. They're businesses, after all, irrespective of who owns them. You and I effectively now "own" shares in RBS; I didn't ask for mine, don't want them and wouldn't in any case be able to realise their value if the Government ever decided to sell it off at a fat profit...

I agree completely on the first point.

On the second, if we start from the premise that the State's RBS shares are effectively 'ours' (inc. presumably ahinton) then surely if it ever sells 'our' RBS shares at a fat profit then it would be effectively 'our' fat profit, from which, I fervently hope and trust, ahinton would not be excluded.

Logic, ahinton, logic .... :cool:

[MrGongGong]

They're businesses, after all, irrespective of who owns them.

eerm I think this idea that somehow everything is a "business" in the same way is the big mistake.
The purpose of a water distribution organisation isn't necessarily to make as much money as possible for it's owners but to distribute water
the idea that somehow "Business" is the right way to do EVERYTHING is a huge mistake
as i've droned on before "competition" isn't always the best way of doing things
we seem to be suffering from (on all sides) a rigid mindset that seems to only have one solution to every problem......

Making money is a good idea if you are running a shop
but not really the primary driving motivation if you are a string quartet

[MrGongGong]

.

[ahinton]

if we start from the premise that the State's RBS shares are effectively 'ours' (inc. presumably ahinton) then surely if it ever sells 'our' RBS shares at a fat profit then it would be effectively 'our' fat profit, from which, I fervently hope and trust, ahinton would not be excluded.

Logic, ahinton, logic .... :cool:

...a logic that, whilst logical, simply doesn't and won't apply. Which of us unwilling investors in RBS would get our money back + profit on the investment if the Government sold of RBS at a fat profit? Answer - none. That was the point that I was making.

[ahinton]

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