We're All In This Together .....

[handsomefortune]

the last '56 up' episode was heaps better than the others. agree, especially the cabbie - so straightforward, in comparison with official waffle at least. shame aldi supermarket moved in on his recent plans on the costa del sol.:erm:

aeolium rates the beeb's paul mason iirc, so i've been following him a bit too. i guess it's 'good news' that the beeb have apparently finally realised that economics is absolute twaddle, especially in the current imbalanced climate. official announcements are getting more and more ridiculous by the day ....'growing businesses', 'green shoots', and other horticultural-speak made me gurn - now we're onto other silly expressions which also aim solely to distract imo ..........does the media think we're that dim or what? not that 'they' give atos..... as the east end woman on '56up' (now living with disabilities in glasgow) expressed - 'find me a job i can do dave, and i'll do it'!

[Serial_Apologist]

as the east end woman on '56up' (now living with disabilities in glasgow) expressed - 'find me a job i can do dave, and i'll do it'!

I think I've always liked her the best of the lot - though one sensed a terrible inner burden bravely carried. Why does it "have" to be so?

[amateur51]

Nah - it was the little cabbie East End guy on 56-Up. Get to watch it if it's still on iPlayer, ams - really excellent programme. Thanks for these links - will check 'em out tomorrow.

Wilco, S_A and thanks for the tip :ok:

[Serial_Apologist]

Wilco, S_A and thanks for the tip :ok:

And thanks to you too ams. Just listened to those two R4 programmes. Who would have known that the man the Americans set up to run the World Bank was a Russian spy? Even "Little Door" was gobsmacked. Or that prior to Marshall Aid they had plans to return Germany to the status of an agrarian economy? I hope these teasers encourage others to follow up on at least one of those two links of yours.

[aeolium]

And then at 20:30 there was Analysis: Why Economics Is Bunk with Newsnight's Paul Mason at LSE interviewing Prof Steve Keen, Australian financial academic and possibly the only person who predicted the financial crash before Lehmann Bros.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j5h51

Thanks for the link to this programme, am51 - I thought it was very thought-provoking, and Keen's analysis quite persuasive.

I am also following this series, also on R4, about the growth of religious scepticism. I'm afraid that as far as the history of ideas is concerned, R4 has a lot more to offer than R3.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think I've always liked her the best of the lot - though one sensed a terrible inner burden bravely carried. Why does it "have" to be so?

Yes she is magnificent. I liked her response to the question "What are you looking for in a partner?" "Well, a pulse would be nice!" :laugh:

Liked her old friend who, as a seven-year-old, wanted to work in Woolworth's and who used to work in the Library, too! (The Library job having gone the way of Woolworth's, alas.)

[amateur51]

Thanks for the link to this programme, am51 - I thought it was very thought-provoking, and Keen's analysis quite persuasive.

I am also following this series, also on R4, about the growth of religious scepticism. I'm afraid that as far as the history of ideas is concerned, R4 has a lot more to offer than R3.

Oh many thanks aeolium, I'd meant to follow this series but fell foul of the 24-hour day rule. I'll see if it's possble to get a podcast/download thingermejiggy :ok:

Later: Only 21 hours left to listen to the first episode :yikes:

[aeolium]

Later: Only 21 hours left to listen to the first episode

Actually I think that's the 3rd episode, am51.

I missed the first one, but there is fortunately an Omnibus edition on iplayer, containing the first 4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jcnbd

(Sorry, should have posted this link in the first place)

[amateur51]

Actually I think that's the 3rd episode, am51.

I missed the first one, but there is fortunately an Omnibus edition on iplayer, containing the first 4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01jcnbd

(Sorry, should have posted this link in the first place)

Oh what a gem, many thanks aeolium :ok::star:

[handsomefortune]

who used to work in the Library, (and later with special needs children, apparently work now deemed 'anyone' can do, much to her dismay). i think lynne's great too! (so much so, that i wrote about her on the 'posh boys in trouble' thread. but may have mistaken her name.... ditto suzy, (and bruce's) concerns for their own childrens' schooling).

for some reason the east end women participants' names didn't sink in too well for me. earlier in the series, as a group, tbh i found the women were treated as a bit of a 'job lot', in terms of representation in the series, though suzy, the posh one, was distinctly presented. only once the others moved a way from the east end did they become more defined. apted's narrator frequently referred to 'the girls', but rarely used 'the boys'. the series is an interesting gauge of social progress in this sense imo.

i found all the boys/men more distinctly defined, as individuals throughout. there were quite a few tactless, or otherwise dodgy bits. i wasn't at all sure about the supposed neutrality of filming the ex jockey/cab driver, tony, in the olympic stadium plus music, (where his bookie runs once took place, at the dog track). in fact i felt positively queasy tbh.

i put it down to the michael apted touch ..... but still think it was thoroughly worthwhile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Apted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Series

all said and done, it's little wonder that some comedians have had a field day pretending to be the '7up' narrator....the temptation is completely understandable. imo the early series is particularly relevant to the current coalition, and threads such as this. since we seem to be fast-tracking backwards, economically, socially, culturally etc

[Serial_Apologist]

who used to work in the Library, (and later with special needs children, apparently work now deemed 'anyone' can do, much to her dismay). i think lynne's great too! (so much so, that i wrote about her on the 'posh boys in trouble' thread. but may have mistaken her name.... ditto suzy, (and bruce's) concerns for their own childrens' schooling).

for some reason the east end women participants' names didn't sink in too well for me. earlier in the series, as a group, tbh i found the women were treated as a bit of a 'job lot', in terms of representation in the series, though suzy, the posh one, was distinctly presented. only once the others moved a way from the east end did they become more defined. apted's narrator frequently referred to 'the girls', but rarely used 'the boys'. the series is an interesting gauge of social progress in this sense imo.

i found all the boys/men more distinctly defined, as individuals throughout. there were quite a few tactless, or otherwise dodgy bits. i wasn't at all sure about the supposed neutrality of filming the ex jockey/cab driver, tony, in the olympic stadium plus music, (where his bookie runs once took place, at the dog track). in fact i felt positively queasy tbh.

i put it down to the michael apted touch ..... but still think it was thoroughly worthwhile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Apted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Series

all said and done, it's little wonder that some comedians have had a field day pretending to be the '7up' narrator....the temptation is completely understandable. imo the early series is particularly relevant to the current coalition, and threads such as this. since we seem to be fast-tracking backwards, economically, socially, culturally etc

I rather suspect Tony's attitudes to be rather familiar territory further out in the 'burbs where many moved in the '80s than where I am (where it's very multiethnic and in general positively accepted as such by those who stayed) - you know, I ain't racist - and don't call me that - but all them immigrants coming, we're crowded enough as it is" etc etc. Think "Eltham" - strong BNP presence in places like that sadly - think "Stephen Lawrence".

[aeolium]

Another illustration of the 'we're all in this together' society. Section 60 of the 1994 Public Order Act really is a hopeless and counterproductive piece of legislation, which almost certainly contributes more to increased tension and probability of riot than any other single factor.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the original platitude rather begs the question of how we are all in it together; not at all in the same way would be my view; there are a small number of 'us' standing on the submerged bodies of the other 90% and whilst we below are drowning those with their heads above water are given oxygen .... and the pool attendants are adept at kettling the submerged protest ... until enough poorer or less fortunate or just plain unlucky people die off ....

it can never be about equality as such, it is a nonsense idea whether espoused from the left or abjured from the right .... the crux of the debate about inequality is that too much kills people .... literally murders them, ruins social cohesion, inflames crime etc etc ..[see the work of Marmot or The Spirit Level]


further there is a body of economic and political thought that argues for a much reduced inequality of incomes as being a major boost to the growth and prosperity of nations and that a strong middle class and bourgeois culture is vital to democracy and the rule of law ...


there is no virtue in all being in it together .... as far as i can see the wrong people have been running the country since the Atlee Government [the last Government that meant it in terms of all in it together] yet we have all been in a country run by the wrong people for sixty plus years ...

what we all feel is rather more the stuck in it than the being in it ....

things could get so bad so fast now that we might need a national government well before 2015

this is a crisis, a deep and profound crisis .... not simply that but climate change is far worse than currently commonly understood and happening a lot faster than previously estimated ...

the times are such that we should no longer tolerate the lies dogmas and vanities of the establishment and the gentlemen of tender years in the Coalition [because they are just wrong never mind their morals]

[teamsaint]

"Things getting so bad so fast that we need a national government" is likely...it has happened in Greece, Italy and to a point in spain.... it is part of a greater plan which is stripping assets and any vestiges of power from ordinary people.
Watch what they are doing.... don't listen to what they say, for they always have a sharp mind and the best PR people to make it sound good.loss of freedoms in the US....centrally imposed governments in Europe....control of economies in the hands of central banks and the IMF...etc etc etc etc etc.

Get indebted by the age of 21.....work for peanuts till you are 70 or older.....hand over control of your country to (supposed) technocrats....export your wars to oil producing countries.....have a population living in fear...Orwell knew a lot. (maybe too much !!)

[Serial_Apologist]

"Things getting so bad so fast that we need a national government" is likely...it has happened in Greece, Italy and to a point in spain.... it is part of a greater plan which is stripping assets and any vestiges of power from ordinary people.
Watch what they are doing.... don't listen to what they say, for they always have a sharp mind and the best PR people to make it sound good.loss of freedoms in the US....centrally imposed governments in Europe....control of economies in the hands of central banks and the IMF...etc etc etc etc etc.

Get indebted by the age of 21.....work for peanuts till you are 70 or older.....hand over control of your country to (supposed) technocrats....export your wars to oil producing countries.....have a population living in fear...Orwell knew a lot. (maybe too much !!)

:ok:

Plus of course the indespensable of an "enemy" scapegoat to offload all the problems of the world, man, onto - without whom, where would "we all" be?

In sequence, more-or-less, (with apologies to those...... left out?):

Catholics
Jews
Communists
Hippies
Environmentalists
Feminists
Gays
Immigrants
Trade union bosses
Social workers
Trotsky"ites"
Foreigners
Travellers
Smokers
Paedophiles
Muslims - Oh, maybe we should have started here?