We're All In This Together .....

[teamsaint]

Actually, all the figures suggest that the pension age rise in the public sector will, if anything, cost money.
This is part of a long term asssault on the workforce by successive governments to make the workforce(well the less powerful parts of it at least) work harder and longer for less.

If there is a part of this that relates to cost to the government, its probably only in the fact that desperate people will take reduced benefits rather than slave on into their 6th decade of work.
The government will not published audited accounts for public sector pension schemes.

There is a desperate shortage of good quality work for our hopelessly indebted young graduates (and others).
Don't believe a word governments say. Watch what they do. What they are doing is attacking OUR standard of living.

As for the state pension....the well off don't care and the rest have no voice, as long as the bank of England luvvies on the labour front benches join in the attack.Stop the stupid wars, and trident replacement, and it can all be paid for.

It bloody stinks.

[amateur51]

Actually, all the figures suggest that the pension age rise in the public sector will, if anything, cost money.
This is part of a long term asssault on the workforce by successive governments to make the workforce(well the less powerful parts of it at least) work harder and longer for less.

If there is a part of this that relates to cost to the government, its probably only in the fact that desperate people will take reduced benefits rather than slave on into their 6th decade of work.
The government will not published audited accounts for public sector pension schemes.

There is a desperate shortage of good quality work for our hopelessly indebted young graduates (and others).
Don't believe a word governments say. Watch what they do. What they are doing is attacking OUR standard of living.

As for the state pension....the well off don't care and the rest have no voice, as long as the bank of England luvvies on the labour front benches join in the attack.Stop the stupid wars, and trident replacement, and it can all be paid for.

It bloody stinks.

:ok::ok:

[handsomefortune]

:ok::ok::ok: - thirded!

[Petrushka]

Everyone repeats the mantra that we are all living longer and as this is repeated over and over again, people seem to believe it. How true is it in fact? Can statistics be produced to prove and/or disprove this? Is it a myth?

We can all say we know of relatives/friends/neighbours who are still going strong well into their 90's but can equally name those who have gone far earlier. It is obvious that we are living longer lives than, say, 100 years ago but I am very sceptical about this creating a pensions time bomb. Is it not rather a case of there simply being a larger population?

[handsomefortune]

A primary school in the country's most affluent borough is making plans to cope with losing up to half its children in the wake of the benefits cap, which critics fear will make London unaffordable for thousands of families.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/11/benefits-cap-school-loses-pupils?CMP=EMCSOCEML657

:yikes:

yes it's awful isn't it amatuer51! BUT remember, we're all in it together' apart from westminster, chelsea, kensington ...etc i fear the list will just gets longer and longer as far as london schools go. after which, the strategy will be 'rolled out' to other large cities up and down the country. it'll provide 'a raft' of benefits and a burst of gibberish as an explanation.

[teamsaint]

I would say that at present it would appear that people are living longer.
However, I am sure there are figure around which suggest that due to various factors, (reduced affluence, toxic environment, longer working lives) that the kids being born now will be the first generation to live less long than its parents. I suspect this may well be true. The government certainly has an agenda to have us believe that we are living longer.

Proof of this agenda. Look at the "report" recently that claimed that a quarter of kids born today will reach 100 years old.These figures, put out by the DWP and repeated as the lead news agenda on the BBC, are a LIE. Seriously, how many people do you know who reached 100 ? 1 or 2 maybe? and all of a sudden its going to be 1 in 4 ?
I really don't think so.

[handsomefortune]

Everyone repeats the mantra that we are all living longer and as this is repeated over and over again, people seem to believe it. How true is it in fact? Can statistics be produced to prove and/or disprove this? Is it a myth?

We can all say we know of relatives/friends/neighbours who are still going strong well into their 90's but can equally name those who have gone far earlier. It is obvious that we are living longer lives than, say, 100 years ago but I am very sceptical about this creating a pensions time bomb. Is it not rather a case of there simply being a larger population?

well said petrushka, while i was listening to r3 the other night a trail for a bbc4 programme about our 'long lives' was advertised, for this weekend coming. from the segment i heard, they seemed to be saying that every time you berp you add ten years to your life ..... or something similar. i'm sure those with tellies with discuss the new mythology with the despair and loathing it probably deserves. anywaysup, i'm off to the thread about john peel, john walters, and charlie gillett who mysteriously defy the new myth, all died in their sixties, along with a huge percentage of other people i suspect, who obviously didn't burp enough?

[Lateralthinking1]

Everyone repeats the mantra that we are all living longer and as this is repeated over and over again, people seem to believe it. How true is it in fact? Can statistics be produced to prove and/or disprove this? Is it a myth? We can all say we know of relatives/friends/neighbours who are still going strong well into their 90's but can equally name those who have gone far earlier. It is obvious that we are living longer lives than, say, 100 years ago but I am very sceptical about this creating a pensions time bomb. Is it not rather a case of there simply being a larger population?

Petrushka

Situations

Sorry to hear about your situation and I wouldn't want to be there. If it is any consolation the opposite of your scenario - no longer being in work and seeing the years of non-pension extending at the same time - is also horrible. It has a physical and emotional impact that feels like inability for survival. The symptoms are similar to post-traumatic shock. Not good if there are elements of that in someone's history in the first place. Why write so much? Precisely to manage those impacts!

The state seriously underestimates what it is doing. Had all of these decisions been taken by unscrupulous American bankers, the impacts would be more manageable. None of it then would have been surprising. I think Calum mentioned that money is more than money and hence envy isn't envy. How true. It is the issue of betrayal by country to whom we have all been taught to be loyal.

Life expectancy

I think life expectancy has fallen slightly. What I find dubious is the fact that they are so certain pensions will be less affordable in 10,20,30,50 years. At the same time, we are being encouraged to see this recession as simply a part of a cycle. There is no reason why Britain couldn't one day suddenly be the only country, or one of the few, with a newly discovered essential wealth source. Something like thorium, only better and more exclusive to here. When pensions began, they were open-minded about the future.

What is well-known is that there are differences in average live expectancy according to racial group. Some of this is levelled out by western lifestyles but not all. In a multicultural society, the higher you raise the pension age, the more likely it is that sooner or later you will run into areas of discrimination. I wonder if there is already a group which has a life expectancy of less than the new pension ages. If so, this should be tested for legality. It could have wider impacts for all.

The same is true of families. You can hardly say because 1 in 8 members of a particular family have a congenital condition that leads on average to death at 64 that the family is subject to discrimination. Those unable ever to claim a pension through no fault of their own are difficult to predict and seen as too narrow a group. But I hope that this is where DNA might eventually help. Find that gene - find all those genes - and then insist on anti-discrimination legislation for them. It will be too late for us though.

Best regards

Lat

[Petrushka]

I would say that at present it would appear that people are living longer.
However, I am sure there are figure around which suggest that due to various factors, (reduced affluence, toxic environment, longer working lives) that the kids being born now will be the first generation to live less long than its parents. I suspect this may well be true. The government certainly has an agenda to have us believe that we are living longer.

Proof of this agenda. Look at the "report" recently that claimed that a quarter of kids born today will reach 100 years old.These figures, put out by the DWP and repeated as the lead news agenda on the BBC, are a LIE. Seriously, how many people do you know who reached 100 ? 1 or 2 maybe? and all of a sudden its going to be 1 in 4 ?
I really don't think so.

This is precisely what I have in mind. We are being brainwashed into believing something as if it were a proven fact and on this basis stands the policy of making people work for longer. We are being fed lies dressed up as facts.

Improvements in medical science have, quite possibly, contributed to an increase in longevity but do the elderly have the quality of life? I think not, if my parents are any guide.

[Serial_Apologist]

This is precisely what I have in mind. We are being brainwashed into believing something as if it were a proven fact and on this basis stands the policy of making people work for longer. We are being fed lies dressed up as facts.

Improvements in medical science have, quite possibly, contributed to an increase in longevity but do the elderly have the quality of life? I think not, if my parents are any guide.

For all that it is good that sufferers wishing legalisation of help in ending their lives are being given serious consideration for the first time by those that rule, the numbers question does come to mind... Medical opinion is now predicting that the third (is it?) of children now effectively born obese and in consequence rendered so for their lifetimes with all the pertaining health problems will almost certainly lead to an average falling in life expectancy within the next 40 or 50 years. I am sure there are logisticians at work right now calculating offsetting anticipated savings in pension terms and expenses in terms of longterm chronic health care.

[amateur51]

More signs giving the lie to Dave's & George's and Nick's assertion ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/mar/14/tenants-bear-brunt-economic-downturn?CMP=EMCSOCEML657

[teamsaint]

And more good news from the caring coalition

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/15/george-osborne-top-tax-rate

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16190693

So yet more "socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor".

Well done George. You should feel very proud. You have served your class well.

funny, but i must have missed the part of the general election campaign where they promised to abolish national pay rates. Silly me.

I wonder if the labour front bench will join in this assault on working people, like they did on pensions?

[mangerton]

And more good news from the caring coalition

So yet more "socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor".

Well done George. You should feel very proud. You have served your class well.

funny, but i must have missed the part of the general election campaign where they promised to abolish national pay rates. Silly me.

You and me both. Of course, the people who thought of this all work in London, so will not be affected, and somehow I can't imagine this will affect the higher lords-and-masters grades of the civil service, health service and local authorities. However, as the thread title states - "We're all in this together!"

[Lateralthinking1]

It has become clear to me in the last two months that one political matter has become more important than any other. It is, as far as is possible in any wording of the law, to prevent significant structural change beyond anything set out in manifestos.

There is a petition on the no 10 website to this effect. I urge everyone who is concerned to sign it.

I would also like to invite anyone on the forum who is an active member of either the Labour of the Liberal Democrat parties to pursue this vigorously at the grassroots.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

privatisation of the roads ...pah!