The poppy thread

[David Underdown]

Well the real problem is the lack of personnel files resulting from WWII bombing. If British records were as complete as Australian (virtually all online), NZ (increasingly online, and Cenotaph database helps with those that aren't yet), and Canada (all attestation papers online, full record packs fairly easy to order). US have similar problems to UK except theirs are down to a fire in the 70s

[Anna]

Could be. But wasn't there some sort of protest from the British Legion about a Conservative poster in the General Election? I can't quite remember the details.

Wasn't that the B^P in the Euro Elections? They also hijacked Vera Lynn (cd of White Cliffs, she brought injunction I think) and Winston Churchill's image.

I am quite saddened by this morphing into National Grief Weekend and putting it on a par with Red Nose Day or Children in Need that people have to feel obliged to join in. The 'Bling' poppies, rrp £59.99, British Legion gets 10% of that, they are just big business cashing in. But I guess that's a reflection of our get rich quick, banker mentality.

[amateur51]

Wasn't that the B^P in the Euro Elections? They also hijacked Vera Lynn (cd of White Cliffs, she brought injunction I think) and Winston Churchill's image.

I am quite saddened by this morphing into National Grief Weekend and putting it on a par with Red Nose Day or Children in Need that people have to feel obliged to join in. The 'Bling' poppies, rrp £59.99, British Legion gets 10% of that, they are just big business cashing in. But I guess that's a reflection of our get rich quick, banker mentality.

That was the point of my msg 163, Anna. I'm not convinced ( tho' I could be) that British Legion needs to raise money in this 'value destroying' way.

[french frank]

Wasn't that the B^P in the Euro Elections? They also hijacked Vera Lynn (cd of White Cliffs, she brought injunction I think) and Winston Churchill's image.

Yes, I think you're right. My apologies to anyone who might have taken offence :smiley:

There does seem to be this need to have national get-togethers for any old excuse, street part celebrations &c &c for one reason or another. Even something like Hallowe'en has to be something we share. We had people walking around during the day with painted faces and fancy dress, one dressed-up couple pushing a baby in its buggy. Is it a kind of existential desperation for everything that seems to be collapsing around us? We must all hold hands as we gradually sink ... ?

[MrGongGong]

All part of the "heroes" industry i'm afraid
and with the sodding Olympics SORRY i'm supposed to call it "London 2012" ???? why ???? I always thought it was the Olympic games ?
it's going to get worse

no dignity
no humility
just any chance to make money and pretend that we are "all in this together "

:sadface:

and now on that jolly note
:ale:

Wilfred Owen's ghost used to play the piano in a locked room at Birkenhead College of Art when I was there, it used to be his old primary school I think

[Chris Newman]

In a sane Europe we would all wear poppies. English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, German, French, Belgian, Austrian, Russian.... everyone was there and everyone should remember the awful result and the future which was forgotten. That was what Wilfred Owen, Siegfried Sassoon and more writers than I know about were emphasising.

[greenilex]

MrGG, wouldn't it be something to know what music Wilfred Owen's ghost has been playing recently?

[Nick Armstrong]

For the first time ever I think, I was out in town at 11 on 11.11 (11.11.11 indeed). It was moving to see people of all sorts and descriptions standing silent on the pavement - office workers, construction workers, the lot - observing the silence, some with heads bowed. A couple of bus drivers had brought their buses to a halt too (earning honks from impatient ignorami behind them). I was cycling down Fleet Street in fact, and came to a halt looking up Ludgate Hill at St Paul's, the peak of the dome slightly wreathed in mist, and remembered those pictures of it standing amid the smoke of the blitz.

I had R3 on the headphones, and thought it was handled appropriately, with a suitable envoi from Prof Tom Wright, and a Benjamin Britten fanfare after the two minutes silence.

Interesting formulation by the presenter: to remember "those who gave their lives in the service of their country" I think she said...

Is it me, or is there more attention to remembrance day this year than in previous years? Is it because of the controversies (poppy-burning bans, FIFA decisions etc...)?

I wonder who here thinks we should do what the French do, and make Armstice Day a public holiday? That's giving it serious recognition...

[Anna]

Similar experience here. I was in our town centre by the plot with remembrance crosses, a maroon sounded and a bugle and businesses shut their doors and people stood still on the pavements. The traffic stopped, with the exception of two Unipart vans until the 2 minutes finished, signalled by the canon. There were also quite a number of people at the War Memorial. It was quite moving and certainly all seemed in a very reflective and sombre mood at the end.

I cannot recall seeing so many people wearing poppies. I hadn't realised Armistice Day was a public holiday in France (when did that begin and is VE Day also a holiday?) but I think it unlikely any proposal to make it so here would succeed, possibly in the past it would have, but not now.

[vinteuil]

Interesting formulation by the presenter: to remember "those who gave their lives in the service of their country" I think she said...

"When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohima

[DracoM]

'Remembrance Day' seems to last for three weeks these days. It has become big business, politicians competing with each other to see how soon they can get the poppy in the lapel, and to be honest I'm afraid I resent the blackmail that goes on round it. I have all manner of potent reasons to remember, and I do not see that it is anyone's business as to how I do that remembering.

[Norfolk Born]

I think the undoubted increase in the awareness, and observance, of Armistice Day/Remembrance Sunday may be a result of, among other things, the loss of Harry Patch and Henry Allingham, who were the last two survivors living in Britain of active service in WW1. It's up to us to remember, now that the last living reminders have gone.
Perhaps there's also an increasing awareness that, in less than 3 years' time, we shall be commemmorating the centenary of the start of what was suppposed to be 'the war to end wars'.
I don't feel I'm being blackmailed in any way. (On the other hand, I'm fully prepared to be called disloyal, or even unpatriotic, because I refuse to get excited about the Soccer World Cup or the 2012 Olympics.)

[Anna]

I think it starts too early. Street selling of poppies is strictly from 5th to 12th, somehow, like Hot Cross Buns in February, or mince pies in October, too early a start date and the wearing of poppies on tv from last week in October onwards devalues the impact, it becomes commonplace and boring. But that's just my opinion.

During the 11am silence today I did think of the young men of our family in WW1, now just names on the War Memorial and buried in France, again, just a name, but my family. That sounds so terribly sentimental.

[Nick Armstrong]

I think it starts too early. Street selling of poppies is strictly from 5th to 12th, somehow, like Hot Cross Buns in February, or mince pies in October, too early a start date and the wearing of poppies on tv from last week in October onwards devalues the impact, it becomes commonplace and boring. But that's just my opinion.

During the 11am silence today I did think of the young men of our family in WW1, now just names on the War Memorial and buried in France, again, just a name, but my family. That sounds so terribly sentimental.

:rose:

[PatrickOD]

As you can see, the poppy causes a lot of grief here in N.Ireland. Bloody politics!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1113/higginsm.html

I go along with Anna's sentiments, but I haven't the courage to go along to pay my respects.