Murdoch: Ouf! Is this meltdown?

[ahinton]

More than that - it was about individual police officers possibly cooperating with criminal wrong-doing, and the possibility of a deliberate cover-up by higher-ranking officers. This is another aspect which has been dragged into the NI/NotW affair.

Yes, that is indeed the case (and apologies for my typos which I've now corrected!).

On Simon's point: I think he dismisses the aspect of 'public interest' - on which there may well be differences of opinion in any given case - too lightly.

I am inclined to agree.

[eighthobstruction]

....

[ahinton]

:laugh::ok:A Hinton....nice one....no more than I expected....[I had expected you to go back through all my posts, and quote an entire legion]....anyway, well met, quits I hope....

Sure! - though quite why you'd expected me to go back through all your posts when you'd already written "if you look back in this thread and the original thread/ dicussion that goes some months back...you would see and know that i have contributed and been a main instigator in this debate" and I did not disagree remains something of a puzzle to me; never mind! When I quote, incidentally I do so for the sole purpose of trying to clarify precisely what it is to which I'm about to respond.

[Chris Newman]

I do not think it acceptable for those in the media to break the law. I do not think it acceptable for those in the media to break confidentiality, to leak confidential information or to harrass individuals under the false flag of "public interest" either.

And if the furore about the criminal dishonesty of wikileaks and the Guardian were as vociferous from certain quarters as that about the criminal dishonesty of some at NI, then I'd say that a fair balance had been reached. But of course it hasn't.
:

Here we disagree, Simon. The dishonesty at NI was (1) a flagrant disregard for the law of the land and if the resulting inquiries reveal that other parts of the media were invoved so be it (2) the man at the top shows no moral scruples to nation, creed or society and searches for domination through the media. That is a matter of the greatest importance to the security of this nation, the USA, Australia and other countries where his finger has probed. The sex lives of footballers is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Much of what was revealed by Wikileaks was or should be in the public domain as its common knowledge will make the world a safer place. The released information dealt with nefarious subterfuge and ineptitude. The five newspapers involved The New York Times, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, The Guardian and Le Pais deliberated intensely on their national security and chose subjects that they believed were of greater importance in the public domain. These are all respected liberal-minded papers. You will say the Guardian is left-wing. Many in the Labour Party or Democrats in the States regard it as right-wing. By comparison with the other main British papers the Daily Telegraph, Independent or The Times it may appear closer to the left whilst in reality it is fairly centrish. The Morning Star is so far out on a limb in the whole world, not just Britain, as to make the Guardian appear fascist. The left have given up with the British Press; or should I say the British Press has given up with the left. New Labour became the liberal wing of the Tory Party and the Daily Mirror modelled itself on the Sun to sell more papers. Its reading age dropped from 13 to 8 years of age like the Sun (that is an interesting study...the reading age of the tabloids is for young children yet the racing pages have reading ages off the top of the scales: I mean off the scales...some racing articles come out at 35 years of age. Which is similar to legal jargon).

[handsomefortune]

imv, the long view, is always 'relevant' (as is the wider context), and perhaps if we'd maintained a less short sighted, narrow perspective, as a postwar consumerist society, we mightn't currently be as threatened by global monopolies?

murdoch - the long view

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/01/rupert_murdoch_-_a_portrait_of.html

eightobstruction, the next stage imo is where the isms, or 'identity politics' are played off of one another, as a devisive means, to distract, prevent cohesion, especially within ''marginalised urban communities'.

the wealthy 'multi-home owning' elite will still be proud of the day that they conversed with 'a person of a minority' ....which typically says more about them, than the allegedly 'problematic' subject they take pleasure in referring to. usually, chiefly, in order to draw attention to their own sense of 'worldliness'.....mainly because they have retreated from it.

i agree with your post, think it 'relevant' ....as i imagine would tony judt, (rip) and richard sennett, both of whom make similar criticisms of lack of collective political engagement postwar, by the dominant educated elite espesh, and the emphasis being on individualism, and identity politics instead.

post civil rights movement, the isms are a very worthwhile counter to prejudice imv..... but clearly, citeing an 'ism' in the face of global monoploly is obviously pretty pointless.

the only stuff i find definitely 'irrelevant' ahinton, are posts that aim to score points via personalised comments, and pingponging between left/right.

ideally, what i would love to happen, as a counter strategy, is if uk, australia and the US joined forces in combatting the likes of murdoch-style empires. however, in order to do this, info has to be in the public domaine, and an alliance has to be corruption proof. perhaps it's foolish to be optimistic ....but arguably, cynicism is what has allowed inertia to rule, and for consumerism to replace an interest in politics, ....as 'irrelevant'.

[eighthobstruction]

Incidently did anyone see Horizon last night [the last 12 minutes], where a study of Chief Executives of large Corporations come under the banner psychopaths [in line with murders and rapists] and the study also found that the psychopaths 'results' as far as profitability of their companies was very low. [they bully, and talk the talk, but could not produce an efficiently running happy ship]

....A Hinton....relevance : Murdoch, Murdoch jnr are CEO's

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b014kj65/Horizon_20112012_Are_You_Good_or_Evil/

[ahinton]

the only stuff i find definitely 'irrelevant' ahinton, are posts that aim to score points via personalised comments, and pingponging between left/right.

I agree with you; this is why I put forward what I've been discussing what is to be discussed within this thread and why I made the same point that the issues concerned do not admit of "left" or "right" wing argument ather than indulge either in point-scoring (I have no "points" to "score") or ping-pong playing.

ideally, what i would love to happen, as a counter strategy, is if uk, australia and the US joined forces in combatting the likes of murdoch-style empires. however, in order to do this, info has to be in the public domaine, and an alliance has to be corruption proof. perhaps it's foolish to be optimistic ....but arguably, cynicism is what has allowed inertia to rule, and for consumerism to replace an interest in politics, ....as 'irrelevant'.

One difficulty in trying to get more than one nation involved in combatting the same thing is in the fact that no two countries have identical legislatures and so arguments will arise on principle and emphasis almost immediately. That this is in any event an international issue is common knowledge, but even hounding operational manifestations of the Murdoch empire out of US, UK and Australia means only that they will relocate elsewhere. I really do believe that the only ways in which certain kinds of activities that have occurred under the auspices of the Murdoch empire (although it's important to bear in mind that they're by no means confined to that organisation) can properly be dealt with is for the appropriate authorities to investigate, charge, try and, if found guilty, convict and sentence those involved in each country where such activities have occurred and in accordance with the legal frameworks applicable in each such country; I'm not suggesting that this will stamp out future occurrences, but I don't see how it would be possible to go that far.

[Serial_Apologist]

imv, the long view, is always 'relevant' (as is the wider context), and perhaps if we'd maintained a less short sighted, narrow perspective, as a postwar consumerist society, we mightn't currently be as threatened by global monopolies?

Products could be made to last longer, but consumer durables is a misnomer - obsolescence, short term investment ranges to suit profits and shareholder returns, has always been built into the capitalist mode of production - the postwar period being no different - along with an associated ideological bid through various meedja to persuade your peers to persuade you outward appearances are the entry ticket.

You're right about identity politics - if you're not careful, at this rate you'll end up (shock, horror, indoctrination!) with a good ole class analysis, HSF!

[Chris Newman]

Incidently did anyone see Horizon last night [the last 12 minutes], where a study of Chief Executives of large Corporations come under the banner psychopaths [in line with murders and rapists] and the study also found that the psychopaths 'results' as far as profitability of their companies was very low. [they bully, and talk the talk, but could not produce an efficiently running happy ship]

....A Hinton....relevance : Murdoch, Murdoch jnr are CEO's

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode..._Good_or_Evil/

It was very interesting. Especially the bit where the psychologist discovered he had the particlar gene missing and the correct chemical from his parents that could make him a psychopath, yet because his parents had been wonderfully loving he had luckily missed out on being a bad psychopath. That the combination of nature and nurture with psychopaths is vital to their goodness or evil opens the question as well the development of normal types.

[Serial_Apologist]

It was very interesting. Especially the bit where the psychologist discovered he had the particlar gene missing and the correct chemical from his parents that could make him a psychopath, yet because his parents had been wonderfully loving he had luckily missed out on being a bad psychopath. That the combination of nature and nurture with psychopaths is vital to their goodness or evil opens the question as well the development of normal types.

Perhaps we should all go back and read Aldous Huxley's final novel "Island", in which - albeit with rather wooden characterisations - he portrayed a society run on a mixture of psychoanalysis, Buddhism and environmental principles. Oh, and psychedelics! :erm: There, they had their way of incorporating the bullies and muscularly over-endowed, by putting them on physically demanding work.

[amateur51]

Les braves it out ...

Former NI boss stands by evidence that he believed News of the World royal editor was 'only person' involved in phone hacking

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/sep/09/phone-hacking-les-hinton-clive-goodman

[ahinton]

Les braves it out ...

Former NI boss stands by evidence that he believed News of the World royal editor was 'only person' involved in phone hacking

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...-clive-goodman

Forgive me if I've mentioned this previously (I cannot now recall whether or not I have done so) but I am no more a relative of Les Hinton than I am of the composer Arthur Hinton; I do tend to brave it out at times, though...

[Sydney Grew]

A colourful Antipodean interview with a certain Miss N. Rowe on the subject of a certain Mr. Osborne and certain others. It is a very recent interview but it may well be old news.

[handsomefortune]

there's lots of 'old' stories floating around, but this one isn't 'old', in that visiting the noftw story this time round, it's from a london sex worker's perspective - minus the 'gloss' liberally applied initially.

clearly, this approach was to preserve osbourne's image and still run the story, as suggested by n rowe. (she's rather convincing imo).

since time has passed, i should imagine as far as osbourne is concerned, he's (nearly) 'returned to virgin status' ....or at least, this is what he might be attempting mentally, in order to try to mezmerise his past away.

still, back to 'forceing' current unpopular changes through ...because of 'the mess nulabour left behind', and other eveyday fantasies, heavily pushed since osbourne's election success.

having a paranoid 'outsider' in charge, as chancellor, makes perfect sense of his anti social changes, victimisation of the most vulnerable sections of society!? an oxford mess is just as repugnant as an eton mess - so osbourne needn't feel excluded, and insecure.

(hope miss rowe comes out of it unscathed - though i doubt it somehow....'the sun' will have a field day).

[eighthobstruction]

I've been trawling the net, but as yet have been unable to find evidence of Osborne as being a shape-shifting reptilian alien....but I know it's out there SOMEWHERE !!

http://www.mediastorehouse.com/image/george_osborne_4691278.jpg