Murdoch: Ouf! Is this meltdown?

[Mandryka]

I think it's fair to say that every government since the war has felt that the BBC was biased against it.

The pre-war BBC did indeed have a bias toward the Right, giving the government authority over the airwaves during the General Strike and allowing Stanley Baldwin carte blanche to do as he wished with is broadcasts while giving the Labour Party very little access indeed.

[ahinton]

Well, if any petition is being sponsored by that shady group of leftists "Avaaz", there's no question that it should be opposed for all it's worth.

The BBC has a similar monopoly on the UK news. Despite my being a big admirer of much that the Corporation does in its programming, there is no doubt that its political coverage is very much biased to the left. (At the moment it's trying its hardest to damage NI even more, by spending half its bulletins discussing what James Murdoch may or may not have known). Meanwhile, other stories - about life and death - go begging. Do we see Avaaz campaigning against that sort of influence? Pigs might fly...

So the BBC is always left and the Murdoch empire and its principal representatives always right, yes? What an astonishingly simple world is the one which you appear to inhabit, Simon! Why do you suppose that life is so simple and so black-and-white as you seem to paint it? If you cannot trust the manner in which certain major news media organisations either source the information that they publish or provide balanced and truthful reportage, why would you worry that "other stories - about life and death - go begging" (unless they're merely "begging" to be reported truthfully and pragmatically without the data that gives rise to their coverage having been sourced illegally). The kinds of activity under scrutiny - not only phone hacking but email and other computer hacking, bugging of persons and premises and other forms of covert surveillance, bribery and the like all happen to be against the law; is that fact genuinely of no importance to you? or is it of less importance than those "other stories" of which you write? Furthermore, you cannot rightly accuse NI or indeed other news media organisations of ignoring any or all of those other stories in any case unless you can prove beyond doubt (which of course you cannot) that their coverage has been consistently and comprehensively passed over in favour of coverage of the various actions for which no small number of senior Newscorp officials have been under varying degrees of suspicion for quite some time. This one isn't going away and I cannot imagine any law-abiding British citizen even beginning to hope that it might do so until all necessary investigations have been successfully completed, all appropriate charges made, all relevant court cases tried (and appealed as most are likely to be) and all resulting convictions handed down.

It's not simple, Simon; senior police officers, civil servants, MPs, lawyers, officials of the judiciary and many members of the general public accept that fact, so why is it so problematic for you, Mr Pee and others of similar bent?

[french frank]

The BBC has a similar monopoly on the UK news. Despite my being a big admirer of much that the Corporation does in its programming, there is no doubt that its political coverage is very much biased to the left.

Oh, how true!

'Horrible Right Wing BBC Agenda'

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/horrible_right/

Yes the BBC is biased - but to the right
The legitimate spectrum starts with the crazy-right and ends with centrist-liberalism

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-yes-the-bbc-is-biased--but-to-the-right-443954.html

BBC ‘open to right-wing populism’

http://www.mwaw.net/2007/05/23/bbcmovesright/

Your view depends on your own position on the political spectrum. [I think the BBC broadly has the correct balance :winkeye:]

[ahinton]

Oh, how true!

'Horrible Right Wing BBC Agenda'

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/horrible_right/

Yes the BBC is biased - but to the right
The legitimate spectrum starts with the crazy-right and ends with centrist-liberalism

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-yes-the-bbc-is-biased--but-to-the-right-443954.html

BBC ‘open to right-wing populism’

http://www.mwaw.net/2007/05/23/bbcmovesright/

Your view depends on your own position on the political spectrum. [I think the BBC broadly has the correct balance :winkeye:]

Whether or not it does, if Simon's view of the nature of BBC's political bias is nevertheless correct (even if only to him and those very few of like mind), might that not suggest just how far to the right Simon oand those very few of like mind actually are?

I wonder if Simon and his chums consider, for example, that Andrew McGregor's long-running (and may it continue to be so!) CD Review to be a bastion of BBC Marxist propaganda?

[Simon]

So the BBC is always left and the Murdoch empire and its principal representatives always right, yes?

<sigh> No, Alistair. The BBC is generally left-leaning in its political coverage and reporting and the NoW was a mindless rag of no constructive benefit to the community whatsoever. As I've said before.

It's not simple...

We know, Alistair. Simplicity was never claimed.

You have this annoying habit of jumping in pompously with patronising comments which might more often be useful if you bothered to understand the points you wish to argue against. I don't doubt your sincerity: your comprehension is what worries me.

[amateur51]

<sigh> No, Alistair. The BBC is generally left-leaning in its political coverage and reporting and the NoW was a mindless rag of no constructive benefit to the community whatsoever. As I've said before.




We know, Alistair. Simplicity was never claimed.

You have this annoying habit of jumping in pompously with patronising comments which might more often be useful if you bothered to understand the points you wish to argue against. I don't doubt your sincerity: your comprehension is what worries me.

Why single out the only Murdoch paper that is no longer being produced, Simon? What about The Times, The Sunday Times, The Sun?

Why is Simon allowed to get away with these sneering attacks on other Board Members? :erm: I think we should be told :ok:

[Simon]

Oh, how true!

'Horrible Right Wing BBC Agenda'

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/horrible_right/

Yes the BBC is biased - but to the right
The legitimate spectrum starts with the crazy-right and ends with centrist-liberalism

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-yes-the-bbc-is-biased--but-to-the-right-443954.html

BBC ‘open to right-wing populism’

http://www.mwaw.net/2007/05/23/bbcmovesright/

Your view depends on your own position on the political spectrum. [I think the BBC broadly has the correct balance :winkeye:]

Oh dear ff. Quoting Alibiah-Brown and Craig Murray to back up any view on the political stance of the BBC is the biggest own goal I've seen here for years.

As regards the latter, remember where I used to work? I'm well aware of the motivation there, I assure you! And of other things too...

[MrGongGong]

Oh dear ff. Quoting Alibiah-Brown and Craig Murray to back up any view on the political stance of the BBC is the biggest own goal I've seen here for years.

As regards the latter, remember where I used to work? I'm well aware of the motivation there, I assure you! And of other things too...

Of course where you "used to work" ............. hummmmmmmm

here maybe ?

http://www.illustrationartgallery.com/acatalog/BestallRupert.jpg

(sorry .......)

[french frank]

Oh dear ff. Quoting Alibiah-Brown and Craig Murray to back up any view on the political stance of the BBC is the biggest own goal I've seen here for years.

I wasn't 'backing up' the stance of the BBC, merely pointing out that one's view of the BBC depends on one's own political stance. You're right-wing: you think the BBC has a left-wing bias.

As regards the latter, remember where I used to work?

No, I've no idea. I thought you were some sort of land agent.

[Mr Pee]

Why single out the only Murdoch paper that is no longer being produced, Simon? What about The Times, The Sunday Times, The Sun?

Why is Simon allowed to get away with these sneering attacks on other Board Members? :erm: I think we should be told :ok:

Because The Times and the Sunday Times are both fine newspapers, in my the view the best in their field. I wouldn't say the same for The Sun, but it fills a particular niche, for those who like that sort of thing.

As for the "sneering attacks", the phrase pot and kettle comes to mind. Simon has been on the receiving end of his fair share from certain posters here. Amateur- perhaps you might consider deleting your rather juvenile and tiresome signature, for a start......:erm:

[Ferretfancy]

Mr Pee
What I particularly like about the Sunday Times is their fascinating habit of producing news stories and scientific breakthroughs which are not published in any other paper, and are almost always never heard of again. At one time I believe this was called Insight.
Still, I've learned a lot about different brands of mineral water from Michael Winner, that alone must be worth £2.20

[ahinton]

<sigh> No, Alistair. The BBC is generally left-leaning in its political coverage and reporting and the NoW was a mindless rag of no constructive benefit to the community whatsoever. As I've said before.

We know, Alistair. Simplicity was never claimed.

You have this annoying habit of jumping in pompously with patronising comments which might more often be useful if you bothered to understand the points you wish to argue against. I don't doubt your sincerity: your comprehension is what worries me.

I return to this forum only to find that the discussion of the subjects has become enmeshed in another about the trading of insults. For the record, I do not regard your remaks about my allegedly patronising comments as insulting, nor do I take your allegation as an insult, so let's get that one out of the way and concentrate instead on the matter at hand, for the points against which I'm arguing at this stage are those of alleged "left-wing bias" on the part of BBC and others and the apparent lack of importance that a tiny but vociferous minority of members here ascribe to those activities of which journalists and their bosses have now been regularly accused for quite some time now.

A view that "the BBC is always left and the Murdoch empire and its principal representatives always right" would indeed be an over-simplistic one. My use of the word "right" in this context was obviously meant to be a play in any case, in that its intended meaning is "correct" as distinct from necessarily "right-wing" politically; I wasn't actually discussing the political "wing" that might be thought to be represented by Newscorp at all (and do bear in mind that I'm referring to Newscorp, the parent company, not just the now-defunct NoW, when writing of "the Murdoch empire").

I asked why you "suppose that life is so simple and so black-and-white as you seem to paint it" because you provide no evidence to show that everyone at BBC shares - or is officially obliged under contractual terms to share - an identical left-wing view and to display it in all of its public broadcasts, nor do you prove that BBC as an organisation is blatantly left-wing. More importantly, perhaps, you don't even specify what you mean by "left-wing" and, since we don't all share the same political views here any more than BBC staff do, it is clear that what's "left-wing" to you may not be so to everyone else here; however, you decline to make any allowance for that fact, which is why ff and I have drawn attention to your stance as one which appears to regard far more political viewpoints as "left-wing" than the majority of us do.

I then wrote that if one "cannot trust the manner in which certain major news media organisations either source the information that they publish or provide balanced and truthful reportage, why would you worry that "other stories - about life and death - go begging" (unless they're merely "begging" to be reported truthfully and pragmatically without the data that gives rise to their coverage having been sourced illegally)"; as you conveniently ignored this direct response to your remarks, the question to you remains open and unanswered.

I next observed that the "kinds of activity under scrutiny - not only phone hacking but email and other computer hacking, bugging of persons and premises and other forms of covert surveillance, bribery and the like all happen to be against the law" and asked whether or not that fact matters to you but, of course, you've rather predictably skated around that, too. You may consider NoW to have been of little value (and I for one don't particularly disagree with that view) but, as I said, I'm talking here not only about Newscorp as a whole but any all all news media organisations that at best turn a blind eye to breaches of the law in the course of information gathering on the part of its journalists. So, I ask you again - is this issue really of little importance to you or to any of the rest of us when multiple breaches of the law are involved and where senior officials of large-scale international news media corporations condone and indeed encourage such illegal activity? - and is it "left-wing" to claim that it is indeed of importance?

I also asked you why, given that "senior police officers, civil servants, MPs, lawyers, officials of the judiciary and many members of the general public accept" that this is an important issue, why is it so problematic for you, Mr Pee and others of similar bent to accept it but, once again, you appear to become tongue-tied.

Sometimes silence is far from golden.

[handsomefortune]

Oh, how true!

'Horrible Right Wing BBC Agenda'

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/09/horrible_right/

Yes the BBC is biased - but to the right
The legitimate spectrum starts with the crazy-right and ends with centrist-liberalism

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-yes-the-bbc-is-biased--but-to-the-right-443954.html

BBC ‘open to right-wing populism’

http://www.mwaw.net/2007/05/23/bbcmovesright/

Your view depends on your own position on the political spectrum. [I think the BBC broadly has the correct balance :winkeye:]

:ok: thanks french frank, all three a good read. the view points, (at last) provide a notion of the political spectrum: shades of leftism, within which there are off shoots of offshoots. (ditto shades of the right, and shades of western centre-ist liberalism).

i am pleased that the 'centre-ist liberialism' that we currently live by in the west, is identified in one of french frank's articles. not least, because this is arguably our only political defence against the threats of global monopolies.

imo the last few pages of typical mb fall outs, are actually due to sticking to comparitively old school ideas such as 'having a political identity to discuss initially', as this implies we can actually participate. (scarily, perhaps we can't)? debate therefore, within our posts might just amount to 'comfortable point scoring'..... that is, without wishing to offend any individual.

imv owning up to zero political control personally, is even more depressing than the views of traditional political opposition.

it makes me laugh (albeit darkly) tbh, to think that the right imagine they may prosper in the current crisis .... since imo they certainly wont, unless they have enough £/$s to compete within the global financial elites, and win. i doubt anyone contributing to this forum has that amount of spare cash....or that the current coalition/nu labour is up to the task.

murdoch illustrates his own fluidity, in jumping bandwagons, piggybacking from right, to left, and back to right again... which i think says a lot.

central to the debate should ideally be the notion of the threat, and increasing possibility of the death of political ideology - not least, because this is literally what is at stake, in allowing media/etc monopolies. logically, we should all detest what is happening globally... that is unless people arent bothered about 'the death of political ideology', or the threat of 'the death of the democratic process'.

imo this is precisely why the story of rupert murdoch, and family is much more than idle sensationalist gossip, or left/right point scoring. the idea that anyone on this forum might support murdoch's empire is simply ridiculous in the extreme. that is, unless they hope for a worrying, shortened life span for themselves, families and friends, which amounts to a brand of nihilism, more often found in disgruntled teenagers, with hormone inbalance. (to my knowledge no posters qualify in having this excuse)! that said, it is a fascinating, gripping debate - and i'm grateful to french frank for providing this thread, to post news articles, reflect on daily progressions, along with our personal opinions on a given aspect.

[Chris Newman]

"Posted by ff

I have to confess that I did not regard the Murdoch question as one which was indisputably a matter of right and left."

Exactly, ff. Extraordinarily well put and the Murdoch question has not been boring as was cried on this thread and has led to a falling out when attempts were made to stop the discussion using boredom as an excuse with the casual and inaccurate cry of left-wing interests. It has been as gripping as a Hollywood blockbuster like The Godfather or a TV series like Dallas. It has turned into a riveting enquiry as it deals with a burning quest for power in as many nations as possible. The major protagonist has been prepared to change nationality and align himself to left or right as he found useful. He rose to a position of great respect and awe much feared by politicians of all parties in many nations. He has acted as a maverick free agent within the worlds of politics and the media and since revelations have broken has potentially given a shamed and shocking reputation to many politicians of all alignments and the media industry. This story will run and run.

[Lateralthinking1]

Would a completely separate thread entitled "War of Left and Right" be helpful? Then we could just have any posts about left wing this and right wing that referred to it and leave the other topics free of such stuff.

It will be fascinating to see how many a self-proclaimed left winger twists in his or her seat about, say, the notion of ending all inheritance so that the Government takes every penny. Similarly, the self-proclaimed right-wingers can explain how they feel about a widespread right to gun ownership in the aftermath of the riots.

Really - sorry - but it just seems to me like a discussion that often isn't even what it says it is.