Murdoch: Ouf! Is this meltdown?

[Bryn]

The technology to prevent phone-hacking was developed in Egypt thousands of years ago !
or as some would say

RTFM :erm:

Indeed. Had the targets but changed the password for access to their voicemail, rather than leaving the default setting unchanged, the so-called hacking would have been a great deal more limited in its success rate.

[Anna]

Anyway it'll all blow over in a week or two so there's cronyism in high places, so some coppers are bent, so some journalists pay for information, so some people's phones get hacked and dustbins emptied? :yawn:

What a cynical and world-weary view! I certainly don't hope it will blow over and I certainly hope that those responsible (and it may take years) will get their just rewards, i.e, prison.

Anyway, it's been announced that News International have suspended the payments to Mulcaire which yesterday they said they knew nothing about.

[MrGongGong]

Anyway, it's been announced that News International have suspended the payments to Mulcaire which yesterday they said they knew nothing about.

This REALLY convinces me .................NOT
they did employ him to do the work so really do need to take responsibility :doh:

(am resisting the urge to winge about those of us who are self employed !!!)

[PatrickOD]

I always knew the News of the World would come to a sticky end. As far back as the late nineteen forties we had a priest whose mission it was to prevent the paper crossing the threshold of the houses of his parishioners. I think he even ranted from the altar betimes about the evils contained therein. He used to cast scorn on those who claimed that they bought the paper only for the sports results. Of course, he was thinking mainly of the s-e-x, and would have had no idea of the sort of issues that have now emerged with a vengeance. Nor had I. I have every sympathy for Mr. Cameron and Mr. Milliband in their stated determination to clean up the current, but long suspected mess, but when the very institutions that people look to for civil comfort - the Politicians, the Police and the Press, are among the suspects, I wonder where they hope to begin. And I wonder too how determined we, the population, are to see that these things 'never happen again'.

[hackneyvi]

this article has explained to me why ... Murdoch evoked the name Gallipoli

I've long supposed that he has a grudge against the British. It seems perhaps he's lacked necessary self-awareness and this is where it's brought him.

[Anna]

Well I never! In the latest development in the phone hacking scandal, Rupert Murdoch’s company agreed to release details of its dealings with Harbottle & Lewis, the lawyers who for four years held company emails containing details of wrongdoing at the Sunday tabloid. Documents held by Harbottle & Lewis have been described as the “smoking gun” that could prove that senior figures in Mr Murdoch’s empire were aware of hacking but tried to cover it up.

[Sydney Grew]

. . . I am not convinced politicians are the best people to get to the bottom of all this; frankly, and to repeat an earlier slur, were I hauled before a PSC, I'm damned if I'm going to be cross-examined by members (of any party) with histories of the likes of Mr Vaz.

Quite so - the much-vaunted "demo-cracy" is just mob-rule under a respectable name.

Indeed the "mob" is the real and fundamental problem in all of this. Best to keep them down we say. Out of sight out of mind.

[scottycelt]

I always knew the News of the World would come to a sticky end. As far back as the late nineteen forties we had a priest whose mission it was to prevent the paper crossing the threshold of the houses of his parishioners. I think he even ranted from the altar betimes about the evils contained therein. He used to cast scorn on those who claimed that they bought the paper only for the sports results. Of course, he was thinking mainly of the s-e-x, and would have had no idea of the sort of issues that have now emerged with a vengeance. Nor had I. I have every sympathy for Mr. Cameron and Mr. Milliband in their stated determination to clean up the current, but long suspected mess, but when the very institutions that people look to for civil comfort - the Politicians, the Police and the Press, are among the suspects, I wonder where they hope to begin. And I wonder too how determined we, the population, are to see that these things 'never happen again'.

So true, Patrick ...

When I was a wee Catholic laddie living in the leafy, paradisical confines of Defoe's 'dear green place', we naughty wee Catholic laddies used to yearn for a glimpse of an English Sunday paper called the News of the World, because all we Catholic wee laddies believed our mammies and daddies were forbidden to read it because it was all about something really filthy called S-E-X.

Because it was all about something really filthy called S-E-X, and, even worse, it emanated from that depraved land south of the border, and consequently gave scant coverage to Scottish football, I don't remember ever seeing it on a newsagent's shelf never mind getting an opportunity to furtively flick through its apparently mucky pages.

Disapproval of the English NoTW was the one thing that united Scottish Catholic and Presbyterian mammies and daddies in those halycon days (weird folk like atheists didn't officially exist) and I believe that great 'family' newspaper The Sunday Post (admittedly a very pale shadow of its former towering self) is still the most popular periodical, north of the border.

Ah, the good old days, when things were much simpler and even some priests got it right ... :winkeye:

[Lateralthinking1]

I guess that could account for SNP's comparative indifference although it might be that Salmond kept friendly with them too!

Didn't like most of the developments I saw today at all. It can't be good when the Murdoch people come across as the more reformed - the lifting of gagging on Harbottle & Lewis and the withdrawal of Mulcaire's legal fees. The police also did slightly better than the politicians, announcing an expansion of their team. While I understand this - we are being told it could take years to go through what is clearly extensive documentation - I also don't understand it! How could the Telegraph have gone through all the MPs expenses papers in a matter of months? How could Wikileaks with three men and a dog be on top of mind boggling amounts of international material? Largely because of modern technology so why not the plod?

Parliament was horrid beyond belief. So many of the MPs on both sides came across like socially awkward weirdos. It was very much back to the atmosphere of a bunch of 12 year olds at private school. Labour were astoundingly lightweight in their questioning. Past links, which they can do little about, and the ongoing role of Baldwin, which they can, seriously impeded their momentum. They were winning 5-1 before the debate and now it is 5-4.

Cameron was exceedingly good at bulldozing his way through, full of the tubthumping spirit of his supporters. That meant that he was also really bad. In fact, bad to the point of being awful. Not for his own side but for politics. It was the same kind of "straightforwardness" we have seen from Blair and Thatcher. "Look, I'm being open and honest" he kept saying convincingly. Convincing, that is, except in terms of the content. Slippery answers on his discussions with the Murdochs about B Sky B, on the company that assessed the security risk of Coulson, and much more besides. That all the ra-ra-ra stuff combined with these non-answers was so effective indicated that this was just more of the same old, same old. Very depressing indeed.

So at least we now have committees. Can anyone number them? I can't. Have completely lost track which is clearly a part of their raison d'etre. Ensure that it all remains oblique. Here is another question. How many meetings with the newspaper "Empire" have the following had since the election - George Osborne, Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper, the Minister for Policing Nick Herbert, Head of the Civil Service Gus O'Donnell, Mervyn King, and key members of the Judiciary? Is this not relevant?

On a different point, sometimes you can separate out what you think of an individual and how you feel about him in his role. I wouldn't like Bercow as a person but, for all of the criticism he has received, he is becoming a very good Speaker. He is absolutely ideal for it and very amusing too. Perhaps that's why so many want to get rid of him.

[amateur51]

How could the Telegraph have gone through all the MPs expenses papers in a matter of months? How could Wikileaks with three men and a dog be on top of mind boggling amounts of international material? Largely because of modern technology so why not the plod?

...Cameron was exceedingly good at bulldozing his way through, full of the tubthumping spirit of his supporters. That meant that he was also really bad. In fact, bad to the point of being awful. Not for his own side but for politics. It was the same kind of "straightforwardness" we have seen from Blair and Thatcher. "Look, I'm being open and honest" he kept saying convincingly. Convincing, that is, except in terms of the content. Slippery answers on his discussions with the Murdochs about B Sky B, on the company that assessed the security risk of Coulson, and much more besides. That all the ra-ra-ra stuff combined with these non-answers was so effective indicated that this was just more of the same old, same old. Very depressing indeed.

.... How many meetings with the newspaper "Empire" have the following had since the election - George Osborne, Nick Clegg, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper, the Minister for Policing Nick Herbert, Head of the Civil Service Gus O'Donnell, Eddie George, and key members of the Judiciary? Is this not relevant?

On a different point, sometimes you can separate out what you think of an individual and how you feel about him in his role. I wouldn't like Bercow as a person but, for all of the criticism he has received, he is becoming a very good Speaker. He is absolutely ideal for it and very amusing too. Perhaps that's why so many want to get rid of him.

Excellent points, a usual lat! :ok:

I must say that I saw a different version of events in Parliament yesterday. I saw Tom Watson publicly upbraid the PM for misleading Parliament because he (Cameron) had not responded to a very pertinent letter that Watson had written to him in October 2010. And I saw Miliband score direct hits with his assertion that at the core of the Coulson appointment affair is the PM's lack of judgement - in fact it's hubris. Cameron was warned by Rusbridger indirectly, Clegg was warned directly by Rusbridger, and Cameron was warned by Ashdown, among others. Cameron now has the brass neck to call this '20:20 hindsight'. Sorry old pal, it's nothing of the sort. You were warned by your peers and you failed to take heed because you are an arrogant man, increasingly out of your depth.

Possibly part of the reason for Plod's sloth is that he knows that he has to get it right this time, having fumbled & deliberately obfuscated, allegedly (ok ff?:winkeye:) previously. It is also may be unrelated that some Plodders will be coming up to pension time soon and a nice slow process will enable them to slide discreetly away, pensions intact.:doh:Stephenson's successor needs to get his/her toe up the fundament of these people and get this sorted expediciously. Boris needs to pull his finger out & insist on it too, the buffoon.

If, by Eddie George, you mean the former Governor of the Bank of England, then I can confidently reveal that he has had no meetings with anyone at all since the general election of 2010 as he died in April 2009.

Finally I agree with you about Speaker Bercow... doing a good job and he gave Chris Bryant his standing order 24 debate which most observers thought he wouldn't! :ok:

[amateur51]

I always knew the News of the World would come to a sticky end. As far back as the late nineteen forties we had a priest whose mission it was to prevent the paper crossing the threshold of the houses of his parishioners. I think he even ranted from the altar betimes about the evils contained therein. He used to cast scorn on those who claimed that they bought the paper only for the sports results. Of course, he was thinking mainly of the s-e-x, and would have had no idea of the sort of issues that have now emerged with a vengeance. Nor had I. I have every sympathy for Mr. Cameron and Mr. Milliband in their stated determination to clean up the current, but long suspected mess, but when the very institutions that people look to for civil comfort - the Politicians, the Police and the Press, are among the suspects, I wonder where they hope to begin. And I wonder too how determined we, the population, are to see that these things 'never happen again'.

And unusual omission from you there, PatrickOD, but perhaps understandable :erm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14224199

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14228354

and a fine response from Archbishop Diarmuid Martin:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14230086

[DracoM]

< I saw Tom Watson publicly upbraid the PM for misleading Parliament because he (Cameron) had not responded to a very pertinent letter that Watson had written to him in October 2010. And I saw Miliband score direct hits with his assertion that at the core of the Coulson appointment affair is the PM's lack of judgement - in fact it's hubris. Cameron was warned by Rusbridger indirectly, Clegg was warned directly by Rusbridger, and Cameron was warned by Ashdown, among others. Cameron now has the brass neck to call this '20:20 hindsight'. Sorry old pal, it's nothing of the sort. You were warned by your peers and you failed to take heed because you are an arrogant man, increasingly out of your depth. >

For me, this is the absolute epicentre of all the brouhaha. Cameron is increasingly being shown as out of his depth, treating Parliament like the Eton debating society [ which of course it very nearly currently is in terms of the present Tories ] not enormously bright - certainly not in the Hague / Brown / Cable class, full of a glossy City-boy, posh-boy arrogance. But alongside that, you have to remember the man in the shadows in this: Osborne, who was possibly more pushy and vociferous about getting that plebby oik Coulson up from the village to rough up the media than Cameron ever was. Osborne's silence in the last few weeks has been deafening. I wonder what's been going on behind closed doors in THAT relationship since May?

The Bryant speech was masterly: quiet, fact-based, devastatingly well-informed, utterly without flourish and furbelows, partnered by Tom Watson's determinedly downbeat, surgically forensic demolition of both Murdochs and Cameron, plus the chilling little intervention by Nick Rainsford in yesterday's statement session. I just wish the Labour front bench could have fielded as well-informed, as analytic and as devastating a trio as that.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...as Jack Nicholson said, 'this may be as good as it gets!' and i do have that slightly nervy depressed anxiety about it all not leading to very much real change at all but also an optimism that things could get better .... just as one might feel in the therapists waiting room [this was a fine moment in an otherwise rather poor movie only enlivened by Nicholson's acidie] ...

So many of the MPs on both sides came across like socially awkward weirdos.

er precisely Lat ... it looked like the whole school each had to ask Flashman a question, he batted most of them away with bravura, except for the Bryant, Watson, Raynford and Skinner torpedoes ...... [American chums thought it was wonderful viewing]

now that the theaatricals have subsided there is one dog that has not barked, or posibly two or three ... at sometime in the next month or so, Coulson and several of his NoW underlings will realise that they will be going to prison .... and the prospect of grassing up the whole thing will be become a very desirable option for avoiding the long sentence ... someone, or several perpetrators will break and give evidence against the others, then the truth will be made public ... judging by his appearance on the news last night Mulcaire looks a runner for this role and Coulson appears to be swinging in the wind .... the other flloodgate will be the civil cases, minimum guaranteed at least £100k on current bids [Sierra Miler] but Max Clifford got close to £1m .... and dear old G Galloway is still waiting to skewer the Murdoch press

i see in the morning papers that cognitive deficit is now being attributed to Rupert Murdoch ... the investigations in the USA and shareholder actions will be damaging to the dynasty as well, a new team will pay up to get rid of it all ... and the Democrats and liberals will beat Fox News with the biggest stick they can make of the scandal ... it will run and run ...

the commentary about Flashman is that he is wounded but not down, he can apologise as and when, but his maturity and judgement have been found wanting ... but he controls the agenda and we will move through the debt and economic issues in the EU, US and UK all of which deserve our full attention .... and Cameron is personally scarred by this experience ... he can never have experienced such hostile exposure, but now Osborne owes him big time [no more bright ideas George, a fine mess etc] and what doesn't kill you makes you tougher eh ... and further attempts to nail him for collusion will look increasingly nerdy and irrelevant and be liable to the 'well what about Brown and Blair' answers ... but Flashman is now on probation, another error of judgement and he will be in the mire ...

meanwhile Lat did you notice that Alexander has made the fat cats pay more for their pensions?

[PJPJ]

For me, this is the absolute epicentre of all the brouhaha. Cameron is increasingly being shown as out of his depth, treating Parliament like the Eton debating society [ which of course it very nearly currently is in terms of the present Tories ] not enormously bright - certainly not in the Hague / Brown / Cable class, full of a glossy City-boy, posh-boy arrogance. But alongside that, you have to remember the man in the shadows in this: Osborne, who was possibly more pushy and vociferous about getting that plebby oik Coulson up from the village to rough up the media than Cameron ever was. Osborne's silence in the last few weeks has been deafening. I wonder what's been going on behind closed doors in THAT relationship since May?

I must say I really do hope Cameron and Clegg are eventually successful in sorting out the many problems on their plates. Increasingly though, it seems new self-inflicted ones add to their difficulties. While I agree with you about Hague and Cable, I feel Brown without Whelan was simply a rather unpleasant headless chicken, and his recent performances have been dire.

Cameron is perhaps too nice a man - he does rather go on too long in his pronouncements and they are in danger of becoming brownian soundbites. Theresa May showed the other day the benefit of concise platitude-free answering, one of the few bits I could bring myself to watch. Hence, I missed the Bryant speech etc - I watch as little as possible as all of this business makes me ill.

As for taking advice about not hiring Coulson, it depends on from where it came. Unfortunately, the long-term bad blood between The Guardian and the Murdochs suggest the opinions of each about the other are tainted. I feel no advice should have been needed in the first place. The Milly Dowler hacking, while reprehensible on its own, simply deflects the analysis away from the crux as far as I am concerned, and that is NI has had far too much influence and the BSkyB purchase was not in this country's interest. That remains my view even if there had been no hacking and no questionable police involvement.

I expect to hear that various investigations will show that dubious practices in the press and by the police are rather more widespread than it appears at the moment - if not, I will be pleasantly surprised. In addition, having read the post immediately above, I feel unease about some being happy to take the Murdoch's money (a million pounds, amazing); perhaps with 20:20 hindsight Max Clifford would have waited to get damages from the courts. It would have looked more seemly.

[PatrickOD]

An unusual omission from you there, PatrickOD, but perhaps understandable :erm:

Yes amateur, there are certainly many parallels between what is going on in the Catholic Church in Ireland and the situation under discussion here. While colleagues here have been exercised by the hacking affair, I have been equally exercised by the abuse scandal. It did occur to me that there was a similarity but since I did not notice any reference implicating the Church, either in Parliament, or in any of the messages so far posted, I decided to stick to the issue being debated. That is not to say that I was avoiding any mention of that Irish problem, and I don't quite know why you would say it was understandable that I should.