May's "ordinary working people"?

[MrGongGong]

1. The audit finds an error level in excess of the 2% materiality threshold, and states that there is 'scope for improvement'.

2. The EU acknowledges the necessity to improve on the error level, and has done so in recent years.

3. The audit provides no basis to conclude that X billion euros have been wasted or lost.

4. The audit 'errors' include technicalities in procedures, but do not all indicate misspent or wasted funds.

5. It is simply untrue to say that the EU's accounts have not been signed off for X years (not something which I think you have claimed).

6. The level of fraud in the EU is small (again, not something that you have claimed).

Seems fine to me
about the equivalent of finding 20p in the sofa you are taking to the dump
But it's all "academic" as in the wonderful new world we are entering there will be NO fraud, no dodgy accounting, no people with suspect pasts in charge of anything........ aaah bliss

But lying about it is much more entertaining I guess ?

[MrGongGong]

"EU supporters" are not all "Socialists", though!

Since the EU is a Capitalist Club then you must be right
nice to know i'm not one of the "evil ones" :cool:

[Beef Oven!]

It's very tiring having to do research to refute what people doubt, suspect, claim &c. without having any knowledge.

Time to get my lunch :smiley:

Of course I know what youre on about - I've had to use with internal and external audit throughout my career, to ensure that loss is minimised and robust governance is in place (not just financial loss of course).

But you're simply giving a bureaucratic response. That's what bureaucrats do. In bureaucracies. They are happy with satisfying the rules and the outcome is a non-issue for them.

For me, the outcome is 7 billion euros that can be found. For you, the boxes have been ticked. I don’t think everything is alright, but you do (I’m assuming what you think about this, because 'though I've asked you several times, you won't tell us what you think about this).

Buon appetito

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There’s little point in trying to reason with EU supporters on things like this, especially when it comes to spending the tax-payers money. Socialists have a very generous attitude with other people’s money.

Capitalists do their best not to pay any tax.

[ahinton]

I think it worth reiterating that, even if EU financial and accounting anomalies of the kind to which Beefy has drawn attention are all true and if some or all of them actually do involve wasting of funds or other highly unacceptable outcomes, there would either have to be fundamental reform or the disintegration of EU in order to try to rectify matters; however, what's the guarantee that, should the latter come about, each of the 28 ex-EU nations would not between them pile up similar levels of financial and accounting anomalies? In other words, does this kind of thing (whatever it may actually be in reality) occur on the scale that it purportedly does - or indeed at all - only because EU exists and such practices would all be dispensed with should EU fall apart?

[Beef Oven!]

Capitalists do their best not to pay any tax.

Not just capitalists. Lots of people seek to keep their tax bill to the amount required by law. Is there something wrong with that?

[ahinton]

Capitalists do their best not to pay any tax.

Not all capitalists do that and not all Socialists decline opportunities to economise on their tax liabilities either!

[ahinton]

Not just capitalists. Lots of people seek to keep their tax bill to the minimum required by law. Is there something wrong with that?

No, there isn't, in principle; the problem with it, however, is that, as the tax system is so mind-bogglingly complex, it is very hard for taxpayers, for HMRC and even for accountants and tax planners to be able with accuracy to determine in all cases what that minimum required by law actually is.

[Beef Oven!]

I think it worth reiterating that, even if EU financial and accounting anomalies of the kind to which Beefy has drawn attention are all true and if some or all of them actually do involve wasting of funds or other highly unacceptable outcomes, there would either have to be fundamental reform or the disintegration of EU in order to try to rectify matters; however, what's the guarantee that, should the latter come about, each of the 28 ex-EU nations would not between them pile up similar levels of financial and accounting anomalies? In other words, does this kind of thing (whatever it may actually be in reality) occur on the scale that it purportedly does - or indeed at all - only because EU exists and such practices would all be dispensed with should EU fall apart?

I’ve already said that when I say that it’s bad enough with the UK’s losses and bureaucratic expenses without adding a superstructure of Europe-wide bureaucracy and cost.

[Beef Oven!]

Not all capitalists do that and not all Socialists decline opportunities to economise on their tax liabilities either!

:ok:

[teamsaint]

I think it worth reiterating that, even if EU financial and accounting anomalies of the kind to which Beefy has drawn attention are all true and if some or all of them actually do involve wasting of funds or other highly unacceptable outcomes, there would either have to be fundamental reform or the disintegration of EU in order to try to rectify matters; however, what's the guarantee that, should the latter come about, each of the 28 ex-EU nations would not between them pile up similar levels of financial and accounting anomalies? In other words, does this kind of thing (whatever it may actually be in reality) occur on the scale that it purportedly does - or indeed at all - only because EU exists and such practices would all be dispensed with should EU fall apart?

That might be a stronger argument if the EU was more rigorous than the individual governments.
If somebody can demonstrate that, for example, the UK government has a 2.5% or higher materiality threshold.........

[Beef Oven!]

Anyway, we now have the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act. So this’ll all be a thing of the past.

[ahinton]

I’ve already said that when I say that it’s bad enough with the UK’s losses and bureaucratic expenses without adding a superstructure of Europe-wide bureaucracy and cost.

I realise that; what I'm uncertain about here is whether the "losses" or whatever they may be would be any less if generated by 28 countries individually than they are supposedly when generated by EU.

[Lat-Literal]

What was the precise economic argument for staying in the EU?

Was it simply that we would be penalised if leaving?

(Ordinary people rather than non ordinary people)

[MrGongGong]

What was the precise economic argument for staying in the EU?

Was it simply that we would be penalised if leaving?

(Ordinary people rather than non ordinary people)

We can do nothing about global economics, whatever we do the same men (and they are almost all men) will be in charge of things
We can do something about culture
But people prefer soap operas