May's "ordinary working people"?

[french frank]

well the diminishing returns is interesting , ( certainly to somebody not well versed in this), and one can see the logic of not endlessly chasing ever smaller returns.
However, 2% might reflect somebody's idea of the risk, but you really could write the criteria and draw the line however you wanted.

You could, but why should the auditors do that? It is based on the risk - in the case of the EU, specifically, here - of errors naturally occurring. They say also that 'errors' can refer to value, nature or context (whatever context is), so to compound the mistake of calculating the 'financial loss' from the percentage error level, Beefy has also assumed that all the errors found were of value. And that's how he arrives at a fictional figure of 7bn euros. His figure also ignores the amount of eventual claw-back.

the EU, if it was really confident in its procedures, could surely draw the line much lower, say at the levels for corporations with similar sized revenues. This would be good both for finance, and for confidence in the institution.

What figure are you suggesting?

And in any case the error rate is more than double the threshold.

A quibble, but it was 3.8% for 2015.

More rigour must surely be a good thing, actually both for the EU and for its critics.

Yes, though as pointed out, beyond a certain point it has diminishing returns. They may have to employ more staff to vet claims more closely,for instance, thus spending what they save on staff costs. The audit is carried out to monitor expense and I do disagree with Beefy who finds the level of error 'frightening'. It is being monitored and improved on.

[P. G. Tipps]

Dead easy spending money ... any fool can do that?

The really difficult part is gathering enough money to spend on all the admirable things mentioned by RB.

Capitalism knows how to make money, Socialism how to spend it. We need both but both also need taming and adequate regulation. Right now if I were Chancellor I'd be looking hard at what I could grab back from the ex-Chancellor of Exchequer and newly-appointed Editor of the Evening Standard. :laugh:

That's why I'm a Centrist ... it is Centrism in Western Europe (dominated by the EU) which has produced an unparalleled standard of living for the majority of its inhabitants, alongside personal freedom, since WWII. Of course there is still much unfairness in society and room for plenty of improvement, but no point in throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.

And only the Right & Left feel the need to build concrete walls to keep people in or out of their own 'societies' ... :erm:

[Richard Barrett]

Have you seen how expensive Genelec and ATC loudspeakers are?

I don't imagine he's ever heard of them. But it's a start. We need a BEAST in every bedroom!

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't imagine he's ever heard of them. But it's a start. We need a BEAST in every bedroom!

THat'll either be the Birmingham ElectroAcoustic Sound Theatre, or Richard reclaiming his masculinity!

[MrGongGong]

I don't imagine he's ever heard of them. But it's a start. We need a BEAST in every bedroom!

At least Michael Norris is giving away his plugins :biggrin:

[Richard Barrett]

THat'll either be the Birmingham ElectroAcoustic Sound Theatre, or Richard reclaiming his masculinity!

I'll leave you to guess which one, S_A.

At least Michael Norris is giving away his plugins :biggrin:

I don't know about you but I prefer some of the old SoundMagic stuff before he went all spectral. The waveset transformations were a hell of a lot easier to use than CDP.

[ahinton]

I don't imagine he's ever heard of them.

It's hardly my place to comment on the workings of your imagination but, whilst I have indeed heard of them, I'm uncertain of the relevance to the topic; I rather doubt that they are made either by or for "May's ordinary working people", whoever they might be.

I don't know if Ms May coined the term "Just About Managing" to describe people on very low incomes or whether someone did it for her, but it seems to have stuck for a time; interesting, since she herself seems to be "just about managing" to fulfil prime ministerial office...

[ahinton]

Capitalism knows how to make money, Socialism how to spend it.

You really do specialise in over-simplification sometimes!

[ahinton]

That's why I'm a Centrist ... it is Centrism in Western Europe (dominated by the EU) which has produced an unparalleled standard of living for the majority of its inhabitants, alongside personal freedom, since WWII. Of course there is still much unfairness in society and room for plenty of improvement, but no point in throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater.

And only the Right & Left feel the need to build concrete walls to keep people in or out of their own 'societies' ... :erm:

Centrists are sometimes accused of being neither one thing nor the other and prone to habitual sitting on the fence, a painful place to sit for too long.

[teamsaint]

Centrists are sometimes accused of being neither one thing nor the other and prone to habitual sitting on the fence, a painful place to sit for too long.

Actually , thanks for that thought AH.
Thats obviously why, for the sake of balance, on Question time they have a Lib Dem on the panel......

[ahinton]

Actually , thanks for that thought AH.
Thats obviously why, for the sake of balance, on Question time they have a Lib Dem on the panel......

I must confess that I hadn't thought of that as the reason; I'd naturally assumed that they did so just to prove that they could find one to invite.

[P. G. Tipps]

You really do specialise in over-simplification sometimes!

I might therefore be the perfect Forum antidote to your very good-self, ahinton ... :winkeye:

[jayne lee wilson]

Actually , thanks for that thought AH.
Thats obviously why, for the sake of balance, on Question time they have a Lib Dem on the panel......

...and quite compelling tonight with 80-something Michael Heseltine leaving everyone else behind with his utter clarity of thought and intellectual command of the European Question... showing up Gisela Stuart's empty "people" based rhetoric for what it always is.

He made the unanswerable point that if May insists Sturgeon and the SNP wait to see what the Brexit deal (assuming they ever get one) is before considering a second Scottish Independence referendum, why couldn't the same type of deal be offered to the ENGLISH people on Brexit itself? Or at least, for God's Sake, to the Commons... (without no-deal-crashing-out WTO etc. blackmailing...)

[Lat-Literal]

...and quite compelling tonight with 80-something Michael Heseltine leaving everyone else behind with his utter clarity of thought and intellectual command of the European Question... showing up Gisela Stuart's empty "people" based rhetoric for what it always is.

He made the unanswerable point that if May insists Sturgeon and the SNP wait to see what the Brexit deal (assuming they ever get one) is before considering a second Scottish Independence referendum, why couldn't the same type of deal be offered to the ENGLISH people on Brexit itself? Or at least, for God's Sake, to the Commons... (without no-deal-crashing-out WTO etc. blackmailing...)

Well, it makes a change from boasting about strangling his mother's dog.

The democratic vote was for leaving the EU and for Scotland remaining in Britain.

We can't afford to kowtow to people who only accept what they want.

Time to bring back a sense of giving and respect for the majority will.

If people don't like it, tough. The resistance to democracy is becoming unattractive.

[Lat-Literal]

I really think it is high time that people started to look at the situations from others' points of view. Let's start with someone - me - who signed up to Britain being in the nine member EEC in 1975. First, I was told by the Eurocrats that I couldn't have what I voted for because we needed more members. Then I was told we needed an EC. Then I was told we needed more members. Then an EU. Then more members. Then an army to fight against an imaginary foe. Secondly, I was told by Brexiteers that I shouldn't have what I - and many others - actually a big majority - voted for which was membership of any sort of European community. Then I was told - I'm emphasising I here because it is all the rage - I must have a referendum. Then I was given a referendum although I didn't vote for one and neither option on the ballot paper was at all in sync with what I have ever believed.

Throughout, we have had the Scottish, the Irish and the Welsh sabre rattling on the sidelines. We supported them in their sports. They didn't support us. We supported them in their culture. They wished to pull away. What more do they want not to feel a need for separation at all costs? Some of them. The rabble rousers. Let's look at the SNP. In the 1970s, when the SNP took off, it was almost as right wing as the National Front and anti Europe. Then it changed its mind. It was Socialist and anti Europe. Then it changed its mind. It was Social Democratic and pro Europe. Yippee-do. Do anything - absolutely anything at all - to achieve an egotistical place in history and a one party so called democratic state.

What of the broader picture? The problem was that Thatcher formed Governments and the Scottish had not voted Conservative. But then Labour got in. And then Labour got in. And then Labour got in again. And there was still a problem. Then the Conservatives got in with the Lib Dems and it was all a problem with Tory Governments again according to them. Bull. Absolute bull beyond all bull. Now it is Brexit. We gave them devolved powers. Scotland wanted more. More powers were given. Scotland wanted more. More powers were given and a referendum when a majority said no to independence. Now another referendum is wanted. These people are like kids. The answer is no. The more it happens, the more the answer must/will be no. The same is true of those who rally against a Brexit that I didn't vote for but accept. How about others? We've had enough. Get in line or get out.