General election results 2015

[Beef Oven!]

U

Sorry mate it's a myth try reading

Even the EU arch-supporter John Danzig can only come up with

"The Auditors criticised the error rate of 4.7% of the 2013 Commission’s expenditure. But this ‘error rate’ is specifically not fraud..."

Whoopee! It's not fraud!

A material error rate of £110 Billion one year, £100 billion the next and the auditors have not given complete sign off for 19 years on the spin. THIS A CALLED A FACT.

European taxpayers need complete sign off, not politician-speak.

What kind of rebel are you for heaven's sake? Defending a nose in the trough, job for the boys club like the EU!

[ahinton]

Even the EU arch-supporter John Danzig can only come up with

"The Auditors criticised the error rate of 4.7% of the 2013 Commission’s expenditure. But this ‘error rate’ is specifically not fraud..."

Whoopee! It's not fraud!

A material error rate of £110 Billion one year, £100 billion the next and the auditors have not given complete sign off for 19 years on the spin. THIS A CALLED A FACT.

European taxpayers need complete sign off, not politician-speak.

What kind of rebel are you for heaven's sake? Defending a nose in the trough, job for the boys club like the EU!

But Britain is a member and has been for many years; would you contend that it's not an expert in fraudulent practice that might well even have give a lesson or six to EU over the years of its membership as to how best to do it?

[Beef Oven!]

But Britain is a member and has been for many years; would you contend that it's not an expert in fraudulent practice that might well even have give a lesson or six to EU over the years of its membership as to how best to do it?

Go to bed.

[french frank]

Even the EU arch-supporter John Danzig can only come up with

"The Auditors criticised the error rate of 4.7% of the 2013 Commission’s expenditure. But this ‘error rate’ is specifically not fraud..."

Whoopee! It's not fraud!

That sounds like fraud by the accuser. Here's exactly what was said. And the bit you omitted said:

"But this ‘error rate’ is specifically not fraud. It relates to expenditure not strictly applied according to EU regulations. Most errors took place at national level by EU member states rather than in Brussels. The goal of the EU is to have an error rate of no more than 2%."

[clive heath]

I really didn't mean to launch a topic that might get this thread closed down! And I didn't say anything about "trade".

[french frank]

I really didn't mean to launch a topic that might get this thread closed down! And I didn't say anything about "trade".

The thread won't be closed down - it won't even move to the basement as long as people debate it politely!

[Beef Oven!]

That sounds like fraud by the accuser. Here's exactly what was said. And the bit you omitted said:

"But this ‘error rate’ is specifically not fraud. It relates to expenditure not strictly applied according to EU regulations. Most errors took place at national level by EU member states rather than in Brussels. The goal of the EU is to have an error rate of no more than 2%."

I left quite a lot of his smoke & mirrors talk out.

I don't really care about what the EU aims for with its material error rate (or the fact that it can't meet it) I'm interested in a complete audit sign off. WHICH HASN'T HAPPENED FOR 19 YEARS!

Not sure what your point is.

[ahinton]

Go to bed.

Whilst I might do that if and when I'm good and ready (should time permit), what kind of an answer is that to anything, lest of all the question that I put?

[ahinton]

I left quite a lot of his smoke & mirrors talk out.

I don't really care about what the EU aims for with its material error rate (or the fact that it can't meet it) I'm interested in a complete audit sign off. WHICH HASN'T HAPPENED FOR 19 YEARS!

Not sure what your point is.

Nor am I what yours might be; is there a government whose audit figures you would trust, at least to somewhere within what might be considered to be a reasonable margin of error?

[Beef Oven!]

Nor am I what yours might be; is there a government whose audit figures you would trust, at least to somewhere within what might be considered to be a reasonable margin of error?

The European Union is a government?

There's the rub.

[Barbirollians]

I cannot believe that the British people would be so idiotic as to vote to leave the EU no matter what falsehoods are peddled in the Mail and Express and by Murdoch's rags .

1 If we wish to continue to trade with the EU on advantageous terms we would be required like Norway to adopt similar policies anyway - the only difference is that they would be imposed rather than negotiated

2 What will happen to all the UK expats - goodbye to reciprocal healthcare and benefits .

3 This is a global economy and the Uk will become a far less inviting place to invest rather than the rest of the EU and no massacre of the rights of employees will make up for that .

[Beef Oven!]

I cannot believe that the British people would be so idiotic as to vote to leave the EU no matter what falsehoods are peddled in the Mail and Express and by Murdoch's rags .

People vote according to what they believe, not what you believe. People aren't idiots just because they don't agree with you.

1 If we wish to continue to trade with the EU on advantageous terms we would be required like Norway to adopt similar policies anyway - the only difference is that they would be imposed rather than negotiated

The UK is the EU's biggest customer so we'll dictate terms (money talks, bullshit walks).

2 What will happen to all the UK expats - goodbye to reciprocal healthcare and benefits .

Talented Brits have worked in Europe for donkey's years with excellent health cover (thanks for your concern, but we'll be alright). Are you sure you know what Portugal, Greece, Croatia, etc reciprocate in terms of healthcare?

3 This is a global economy and the Uk will become a far less inviting place to invest rather than the rest of the EU and no massacre of the rights of employees will make up for that .

????????????? What on Earth are you on about!!?? Investors are climbing over each other to invest here!!

[ahinton]

The European Union is a government?

There's the rub.

Of course it isn't - in both cases. The pont is that it comprises 28 of them so far (and who knows of how many more it will come to comprise?), any one of the audieted figures of/for which one would be foolish to trust.

[ahinton]

People vote according to what they believe, not what you believe. People aren't idiots just because they don't agree with you.

The UK is the EU's biggest customer so we'll dictate terms (money talks, bullshit walks).

Talented Brits have worked in Europe for donkey's years with excellent health cover (thanks for your concern, but we'll be alright). Are you sure you know what Portugal, Greece, Croatia, etc reciprocate in terms of healthcare?

????????????? What on Earth are you on about!!?? Investors are climbing over each other to invest here!!

To the extent that any of this is true, that's now; what might happen after UK votes in a referendum to leave EU, in what I imagine will be the highly unlikely event that its voting citizens are foolhardy enough to do so, is quite another matter. EU is undoubtedly a flawed intitution (as could be argued are all of its member states' governments), but it ain't going to get any better if UK leaves; even if it did leave, EU will still dictate many terms to UK as long as UK wishes to retain most of its relations with EU, which can ill afford not to do.

As no doubtg you know, Burnham's now come out with the same promise as Cameron about holding an in/out referendum (though why, since his party's in opposition, seems uncertain unless he's seeking to support the UK government in its intent to do this). At least the two ain parties appear to be shwoing willing in terms of letting the electorate decide; there are some, however, who, were they in government, would simply advocate UK leaving EU without providing such an opopportunity to the electorate.

In your first response to Barbirollians above, whilst of course it's true that people vote according to what they believe, it's that very belief and how it's arrived at that he appears to be referring to; "the falsehoods...peddled in the Mail and Express and by Murdoch's rags" and elsewhere are peddled for the purpose of influencing, coercing and the rest in accordance to what they want members of the public to believe. That, I think, was the point being made.

[James Wonnacott]

Get my point Clive? Only The Guardian is The Truth.
Bear in mind that a number of the posters here are teachers and are therefore never wrong.