General election results 2015

[MrGongGong]

I can't help feeling that some of the virulent political views expressed from time to time on these boards will antagonise those in powerful positions and in a position to fund arts projects.

Lets all roll over so we can have our tummies rubbed by the "powerful" then?

That ok for you Richard? (I suspect not)

[gurnemanz]

If Cameron's legacy is a rump UK outside Europe, as seems increasingly likely, his long-term reputation will surely be even lower than Blair's.

[french frank]

Thanks for the compliment, Oddball. Sometimes even small crumbs of comfort are welcome! :-)

I can't help feeling that some of the virulent political views expressed from time to time on these boards will antagonise those in powerful positions and in a position to fund arts projects.

It's a bit like listening to Radio 3 - sometimes one has to filter out the worthless contributions. People unfailingly reveal far more about themselves than about those they comment on …

[Frances_iom]

It's a bit like listening to Radio 3 - sometimes one has to filter out the worthless contributions. People unfailingly reveal far more about themselves than about those they comment on …

as a worthless contributer can I throw in another observation - the religious divide between the Presbyterian Scots (no Bishops ...) with the deep division on matters of principle at great personal cost involving the wee Frees, the strong Methodist (inc Calvinistic Methodists) tradition of Wales that preserved the Welsh Language as well as a strong communal interest as against the state church of England run as an arm of Goverment which included for much of 18th C + later, place seekers who like Vicar of Bray would swop any beliefs as directed, which church had little interest in its supposed function but merely served to offload younger sons unsuited for business into comfortable livings based on an unjust tax - I suspect this religious divide which also distinguishes the North + Midlands (industrial hearland) of England from the initially agrarian + later financial centre of the SE continues strongly into today's politics

[Dave2002]

ff - you do an excellent job of policing/ shepherding these discussions. However listening to the appeal for musicians on R4 this morning:

https://www.helpmusicians.org.uk/

I can't help feeling that some of the virulent political views expressed from time to time on these boards will antagonise those in powerful positions and in a position to fund arts projects.

Agree about ff doing a great job, and thanks to her for removing tbe block on the basement, even if it turns out to be only temporary.

Re the other point, I rather doubt whether anyone "in powerful positions" really cares that much about most of the views put forward on these boards, and very few of the views really are virulent, as you might be suggesting. We haven't descended to yahboo politics yet - but then we aren't politicians are we?

Re funding arts projects, if there's going to be serious austerity - perhaps a big "if" - along the lines of "you ain't seen anything yet" - then arts could very well get hit hard.

Maybe now is time to start writing to Cameron and others to at least try to steer them in the direction you want, though remember that telling people what you want might cause them to act to thwart you. Perhaps we should all be clamouring for bingo, more betting shops and greyhound racing in the hope that we'll actually get better theatre, concerts and opera!

[french frank]

I suspect this religious divide which also distinguishes the North + Midlands (industrial hearland) of England from the initially agrarian + later financial centre of the SE continues strongly into today's politics

To an extent - and that makes it clear-cut. But whereas one is sure about certain things (I mean the individual is sure about certain things), the differences between the individuals themselves make it more complex. There are Labour supporters who are more generally 'right-wing' in their attitudes than some Conservatives.

But there does seem to be some comfort in reducing things to polarities: either this OR that. It makes the choices much easier, regardless of which alternative you opt for. In fact the correct choice is so self-evident that the individual always chooses the right rather than the wrong, the good not the evil; in spite of the fact that different people make different choices.This is why reactions become so extreme: people know that they're right (and on balance, they may be - but there's usually quite a bit of balancing to do).

[Dave2002]

But there does seem to be some comfort in reducing things to polarities: either this OR that. It makes the choices much easier, regardless of which alternative you opt for. In fact the correct choice is so self-evident that the individual always chooses the right rather than the wrong, the good not the evil; in spite of the fact that different people make different choices.This is why reactions become so extreme: people know that they're right (and on balance, they may be - but there's usually quite a bit of balancing to do).

I think issues such as Trident suggest that people don't always obviously choose what you call the "right" thing.

I doubt very much that anyone sane who wants to keep Trident does so in the hope that the kit will be used - but it's possible that abandoning it would not necessarily make things any safer. Even if it did so for the UK - it might not be the best way forward for the world. I'm sitting on the fence on that one, but I do believe that it's not obvious.

There may be other issues - important ones - where the "correct" responses/attitudes are not obvious.

Also there are some bad people! It's no use pretending otherwise.

[MrGongGong]

This will cheer a few folks up

http://www.droitwichadvertiser.co.uk/election2015/localelection2015/ward/524/7069/

[vinteuil]

as a worthless contributer can I throw in another observation - the religious divide between the Presbyterian Scots (no Bishops ...) with the deep division on matters of principle at great personal cost involving the wee Frees, the strong Methodist (inc Calvinistic Methodists) tradition of Wales that preserved the Welsh Language as well as a strong communal interest as against the state church of England run as an arm of Goverment which included for much of 18th C + later, place seekers who like Vicar of Bray would swop any beliefs as directed, which church had little interest in its supposed function but merely served to offload younger sons unsuited for business into comfortable livings based on an unjust tax - I suspect this religious divide which also distinguishes the North + Midlands (industrial hearland) of England from the initially agrarian + later financial centre of the SE continues strongly into today's politics

... certainly worth a ponder - but looking at the map (of England) it seemed a simpler divide - a rural blue, an urban red; red for areas of higher immigration and also of a higher proportion of graduates: noticeable in the sea of blue the red dots for university towns - Oxford, Cambridge, Exeter, Bristol, Norwich...

[french frank]

I think issues such as Trident suggest that people don't always obviously choose what you call the "right" thing.

Trident, of course, has implications which don't quite fit into an historical political spectrum. I would reckon a lot of people wouldn't have a view at all - like you, they'll sit on the fence until the issues are presented in a clear way. And by the 'right thing', I meant what they perceive, given two clear choices, as being the 'right thing'. And thereafter it becomes 'right' in an absolute way.

I've been thinking about how my childhood upbringing might have influenced my current political attitudes. But 1979 changed the country a lot …

[MrGongGong]

Trident, of course, has implications which don't quite fit into an historical political spectrum. I would reckon a lot of people wouldn't have a view at all - like you, they'll sit on the fence until the issues are presented in a clear way. And by the 'right thing', I meant what they perceive, given two clear choices, as being the 'right thing'. And thereafter it becomes 'right' in an absolute way.

Blimey

Given that the "implications" are state sanctioned mass murder to many of us (and not just the Quakers) this IS a very clear case of something with a 'right thing'.
It's most encouraging IMV that in Scotland people were prepared to support getting rid of it in spite of the economic consequences.

[french frank]

Given that the "implications" are state sanctioned mass murder to many of us (and not just the Quakers) this IS a very clear case of something with a 'right thing'.

I think this illustrates my general point. For 'many of us' (I exclude myself from 'us') it is strategic: a deterrent.

[MrGongGong]

I think this illustrates my general point. For 'many of us' (I exclude myself from 'us') it is strategic: a deterrent.

I guess this comes down to what one is prepared to accept to maintain ones "way of life".

[french frank]

I guess this comes down to what one is prepared to accept to maintain ones "way of life".

Probably. But for most people the whole issue of 'foreign policy' is not one that exercises them greatly in their personal lives. Which is why it doesn't figure largely in election manifestos. People leave it to the politicians to get on with [not that I'm personally recommending that].

[MrGongGong]

Probably. But for most people the whole issue of 'foreign policy' is not one that exercises them greatly in their personal lives. Which is why it doesn't figure largely in election manifestos. People leave it to the politicians to get on with [not that I'm personally recommending that].

The last time I voted "for" rather than "against" the idea of an Ethical Foreign Policy was one of the things that many of us were keen on.
Very sad indeed.