General election results 2015

[MrGongGong]

Do we have to go through all this again?

I've been criss-crossing Europe from the time you were in short trousers (my first trip to Italy was in 1962). All you need is a bloody passport.

A friend in Yugoslavia in 1981, said he might come to London, I said come. He arrived 3 days later at my house.

Things happened THAT fast in the real world.

Nice to see you applauding the free movement of people that the EU has supported

I guess you have never been anywhere where you need a visa to work?


So if we restrict the free movement of people to work (Which is exactly what is being proposed)
your mate could come to the UK but not work
You could go there but not work

[Beef Oven!]

:hummmmmmmmmmmm:

Puccini never experienced any difficulties moving about Europe, and there was no EUSSR in his day.

[Beef Oven!]

Nice to see you applauding the free movement of people that the EU has supported

I guess you have never been anywhere where you need a visa to work?


So if we restrict the free movement of people to work (Which is exactly what is being proposed)
your mate could come to the UK but not work
You could go there but not work

You guessed wrong.

And getting work visas was a piece of cake. My mate went to Sweden and worked then Norway and worked, where he still is today. He was working in Yugoslavia and was a Greek national.

You make too many assumptions about how moving around Europe and working was, back in the day.

As I've offered before, if we exit the EU, I'll be happy to take care of that part of the business for you and all I'd ask in return is free entry to the gig and a pint.

[eighthobstruction]

The same it true for many in private rented accommodation. Why should those who just happen to rent from social landlords have this huge subsidy?

....yes indeed....

[Dave2002]

Those of us who enjoy seeing and hearing musicians from other part of the EU need to be very worried indeed about some of the idea around free movement of workers in Europe that the loons are suggesting.

There have already been some concerts disrupted because the UK authorities have in cases blocked musicians re-entry - even if only temporary - to the UK. OK - the ones I knew about were "only" for some Japanese musicians who happen to spend much of their time living in the UK, so not with a right to be here by virtue of being EU citizens AFAIK, but nevertheless there was disruption. A one day bureaucratic delay at an airport or entry point is sufficient to wreck some concerts. It's right that there are checks and controls, but some of them are surely needless if used to prevent established musicians from leaving and then re-entering the country.

[jean]

And getting work visas was a piece of cake...

Have you tried the USA?

Or talked to a US citizen about working in Europe?

[StephenO]

Looking on the bright side, both good and bad things have come from this election.

Good - Ed Balls has lost his seat, Farage didn't get in, and the SNP have proved, if proof were needed, just how unfair and ridiculous our voting system is by winning 56 out of 59 seats with only 50% of the Scottish vote. Plus there'll be a referendum on EU membership. As Paddy Ashdown said, David Cameron won't keep us in the EU but the electorate will. A yes vote on Europe should put paid to UKIP's chances once and for all.

Bad - The prospect of five years of unrestrained Conservative rule. Without the Lib Dems there'll be no-one to curtail the Tory's 'nasty party' tendency. Were it not for the Lib Dem's influence over the past five years things like Pupil Premium, which has done so much to help so many disadvantaged young people, would never have been introduced.

[french frank]

things like Pupil Premium, which has done so much to help so many disadvantaged young people, would never have been introduced.

Part of the overall package to help disadvantaged young people to a) get the necessary qualifications from school to get to university and b) benefit from increased availability of scholarships and bursaries - and figures show that was successful. Unfortunately, that wasn't the headline story …

[Barbirollians]

Looking on the bright side, both good and bad things have come from this election.

Good - Ed Balls has lost his seat, Farage didn't get in, and the SNP have proved, if proof were needed, just how unfair and ridiculous our voting system is by winning 56 out of 59 seats with only 50% of the Scottish vote. Plus there'll be a referendum on EU membership. As Paddy Ashdown said, David Cameron won't keep us in the EU but the electorate will. A yes vote on Europe should put paid to UKIP's chances once and for all.

Bad - The prospect of five years of unrestrained Conservative rule. Without the Lib Dems there'll be no-one to curtail the Tory's 'nasty party' tendency. Were it not for the Lib Dem's influence over the past five years things like Pupil Premium, which has done so much to help so many disadvantaged young people, would never have been introduced.

The Lib Dems were about as useful in restraining the Tories as a pair of eggshell handcuffs . They allowed them to run amok - Lansley in the NHS , Gove at a Education , the destruction of legal aid , the bedroom tax and the appalling ATOS disability assessments which led to a number of suicides for a start . The Lib Dems were duly punished by all those they deceived into voting for them .

[Richard Barrett]

Plus there'll be a referendum on EU membership. As Paddy Ashdown said, David Cameron won't keep us in the EU but the electorate will. A yes vote on Europe should put paid to UKIP's chances once and for all.

This is a good point. I've been thinking that this referendum would be no more than a colossal waste of time and effort and money, since we already know what the result is going to be. But if it puts paid to the whole distraction of UKIP's and the Tory right's concentration on this issue, maybe more important issues can come to the fore.

[teamsaint]

one day my friends, one day....


In 1649
To St. George's Hill,
A ragged band they called the Diggers
Came to show the people's will
They defied the landlords
They defied the laws
They were the dispossessed reclaiming what was theirs

We come in peace they said
To dig and sow
We come to work the lands in common
And to make the waste ground grow
This earth divided
We will make whole
So it will be
A common treasury for all

The sin of property
We do disdain
No man has any right to buy and sell
The earth for private gain
By theft and murder
They took the land
Mow everywhere the walls
Spring up at their command

They make the laws
To chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven
Or they damn us into hell
We will not worship
The God they serve
The God of greed who feed the rich
While poor folk starve

We work we eat together
We need no swords
We will not bow to the masters
Or pay rent to the lords
Still we are free men
Though we are poor
You Diggers all stand up for glory
Stand up now

From the men of property
The orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers
To wipe out the Diggers' claim
Tear down their cottages
Destroy their corn
They were dispersed
But still the vision lingers on

You poor take courage
You rich take care
This earth was made a common treasury
For everyone to share
All things in common
All people one
We come in peace
The orders came to cut them down



(I'm not sure that the "sin of property" applies to CD collections though. whistleysmileything)

[StephenO]

The Lib Dems were about as useful in restraining the Tories as a pair of eggshell handcuffs . They allowed them to run amok - Lansley in the NHS , Gove at a Education , the destruction of legal aid , the bedroom tax and the appalling ATOS disability assessments which led to a number of suicides for a start . The Lib Dems were duly punished by all those they deceived into voting for them .

How much worse would it have been (or will it be) without the Lib Dems?

Anyway, you're overlooking all the Lib Dem's achievements in government - taking 3 million of the lowest earners out of paying Income Tax, cutting tax breaks for the richest, restoring the link between pensions and earnings, creating 2 million apprenticeships, stopping routine juvenile detentions in immigration cases, blocking ID cards, legalising same-sex marriages and improving childcare.

Yes, voters certainly punished the Lib Dems for mistakes like tuition fees but, in the long term, I'm worried that those who did so could instead be punishing the country as a whole and the most vulnerable in particular.

[MrGongGong]

How much worse would it have been (or will it be) without the Lib Dems?

I'm tired of these apologist arguments
it's a bit like
the choice is between

1: Someone goes for your groin with a baseball bat
or
2: You get stabbed in the leg with a dart

THERE are (and were) other possibilities you don't have to join in with pain

People turned against the Lib Dems for being dishonest and complicity
It's obvious that Cameron and chums are Rick Mayall characters but Clegg portrayed himself as something else

We are a rich country and we could do so much better

[Dave2002]

How much worse would it have been (or will it be) without the Lib Dems?

Anyway, you're overlooking all the Lib Dem's achievements in government - taking 3 million of the lowest earners out of paying Income Tax, cutting tax breaks for the richest, restoring the link between pensions and earnings, creating 2 million apprenticeships, stopping routine juvenile detentions in immigration cases, blocking ID cards, legalising same-sex marriages and improving childcare.

Yes, voters certainly punished the Lib Dems for mistakes like tuition fees but, in the long term, I'm worried that those who did so could instead be punishing the country as a whole and the most vulnerable in particular.

Sorry to MrGG. I happen to believe Stephen here - though it's next to impossible to "prove". My belief is that we'll now see just how bad the Tories can be, if they get things their own way.

I know a lot of recent students find it hard to forgive the LibDems, and I have a lot of sympathy for their views. Clegg was really dumb to make what sounded like an unconditional promise, and then go back on it. Utterly stupid. If he had been slightly smarter on that occasion he would have encomp
assed his statements with weasel let out words. It was an unfortunate mistake, for which he tried to apologise. However, I'm not sure in the end that the disillusionment of students really had that much effect.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

(I'm not sure that the "sin of property" applies to CD collections though. whistleysmileything)

CDs (and books and cars and stuff) are "possessions" - "property" is something else. Possession isn't theft - property is.

Now get orff my land!