Militant students at Warwick

[P. G. Tipps]

But surely that kind of hypocrisy can be found in all walks of political life!

Do you actually read others' posts before responding?

The point here is that I've never yet come across anyone on the Right who preaches that everyone should avail themselves of home ownership and then is caught living in a council house! Have you?

You are now proudly claiming to have identified a half dozen alleged "faux left" candidates; well, who's a clever boy, then?!

I'm neither proud, unusually clever nor, sadly, a boy claiming anything in particular. I merely pointed out that one member was clearly wrong when he stated that DA was the only example mentioned. You may well find it galling and even inconceivable that this could ever be the case but take that up with your forum bosom-buddy, not me!

It's clearly high time to consign this useless term to the dustbin of history, although unless the right kind of bin is used and the term placed in the right kind of black bag it probably won't get collected on the next fortnight's garbage run...

Not on your life! The entertaining spectacle of yourself running around in forum circles and tying yourself in argumentative knots is not an experience to be willingly, if failingly, discarded, ahinton!

[Beef Oven!]

.

I remember Tony Benn being faced with answering this question. I think it was on Any Questions. The questioner asked how government ministers whose background and education deprived them of the necessary knowledge and experience of most ordinary people's lives could deliver geniuine labour-supportive policies - to which Benn answered along the lines that no individual was capable of being in full possession of all facts about people's lives; that party policy was ideally to be arrived at through the input of members from all walks of life, fed into the knowledge pool from which to devise the programme; and that he would be as much subject to any progressive wealth distributing policies thereby arrived at as any other person of wealth and privilege.

I'm not sure if that defined Benn as a faux leftist.

Anthony Wedgwood Benn can't really do anything about his birthright, and pursuing socialist policies throughout his life and career are his 'left' credentials. Driving around in a battered Ford Escort estate as a symbol of his world view, was insulting to people who had no choice but to have cars like that. That period was a sorry 'Faux' episode in his career, but he grew up and redeemed himself*.

*but he did flirt with donkey jackets.

[Richard Barrett]

I've never yet come across anyone on the Right who preaches that everyone should avail themselves of home ownership and then is caught living in a council house!

That is a spectacularly silly example even for you. On the other hand we can all think of examples of politicians on the right who claim loudly to espouse "traditional family values" while indulging in various extra-marital dalliances.

[ahinton]

Do you actually read others' posts before responding?

Of course! Even yours!

The point here is that I've never yet come across anyone on the Right who preaches that everyone should avail themselves of home ownership and then is caught living in a council house! Have you?[/quote]
If "faux"ness is a fundamental characteristic of the majority of politicians in office, does it matter?

I'm neither proud, unusually clever nor, sadly, a boy claiming anything in particular. I merely pointed out that one member was clearly wrong when he stated that DA was the only example mentioned. You may well find it galling and even inconceivable that this could ever be the case

I pointed out how many examples you cited. Ms Abbott may well be one. Half a dozen such examples hardly justify a classification such as "faux left".

Not on your life! The entertaining spectacle of yourself running around in forum circles

I always sit when typing; don't you?

and tying yourself in argumentative knots is not an experience to be willingly, if failingly, discarded, ahinton!

...from which it's tempting to conclude that it's really no wonder that you don't concentrate sufficiently on the subject matter at hand when it doesn't suit you!

[P. G. Tipps]

I hadn't even heard of Thornberry before the white van photo episode - ...........

Oh, not again ... <laugh>

Well, if you live in Holland that's fair enough, I suppose, but one does wonder why you then got engaged in this debate at all if you have such a flimsy grasp of current UK political affairs?

[Richard Barrett]

one does wonder why you then got engaged in this debate at all if you have such a flimsy grasp of current UK political affairs?

So how much did you know about Emily Thornberry before the episode in question? and is a knowledge of the names of minor shadow cabinet members (or of the term "faux-left") really a prerequisite to having a grasp of political affairs?

[MrGongGong]

Driving around in a battered Ford Escort estate as a symbol of his world view, was insulting to people who had no choice but to have cars like that. .

I guess you haven't met any very wealthy people apart from the spivs your mate hangs out with?
I've met several extremely rich folks who drive around in battered old cars because they don't give a toss about what other people think and only want o travel from one place to another. Hedgehogs and BMW's ?

[Beef Oven!]

I guess you haven't met any very wealthy people apart from the spivs your mate hangs out with?
I've met several extremely rich folks who drive around in battered old cars because they don't give a toss about what other people think and only want o travel from one place to another. Hedgehogs and BMW's ?

Tony Benn was one of the greatest statesmen this country ever produced. And there is no doubt in my mind, that he did more than any other politician for the working class and equality and social justice. I just wish he hadn't tried to 'change' 'where he came from'. He meant so much to so many of us, we all loved him, whatever his background.

[MrGongGong]

Tony Benn was one of the greatest statesmen this country ever produced. And there is no doubt in my mind, that he did more than any other politician for the working class and equality and social justice. I just wish he hadn't tried to 'change' 'where he came from'. He meant so much to so many of us, we all loved him, whatever his background.

Driving round in a battered car, not giving a toss about what other people think about the clothes you wear IS where he "came from".

[Beef Oven!]

Driving round in a battered car, not giving a toss about what other people think about the clothes you wear IS where he "came from".

Well, I'm not sure. I felt rather let down at the time. And if I'm honest, I did go with the tabloids view on it, back then.

But, you are right, there are plenty of people who are well-off that don't give a fig about the car they drive.

But when you say "...IS where he came from", I would say it doesn't matter where he came from. It doesn't matter whether he is Anthony Wedgwood or plain old Tony. He articulated the best of socialism (equality and social justice) and presented it in parliament, on tv, everywhere, through and through, cooly intellectually and passionately. So why worry about background, or what you are?

[MrGongGong]

, I would say it doesn't matter where he came from.

But you suggested that it did matter as he was "insulting" people by having a battered car?
You can't have it both ways matey.

[jean]

...it doesn't matter where he came from. It doesn't matter whether he is Anthony Wedgwood or plain old Tony. ...

But what did matter a lot was that he could get out of being Lord Stansgate.

If he hadn't been able to do that, he couldn't have stood for a seat in the Commons.

[P. G. Tipps]

So how much did you know about Emily Thornberry before the episode in question? and is a knowledge of the names of minor shadow cabinet members (or of the term "faux-left") really a prerequisite to having a grasp of political affairs?

Ms Thornberry appeared quite often on TV political programmes in the UK before the 'white van' incident.

When it comes to discussing the Faux-Left/Ms Thornberry I'd have certainly thought it would be an essential prerequisite that one had previously heard of both the term and the person?

[Beef Oven!]

But you suggested that it did matter as he was "insulting" people by having a battered car?
You can't have it both ways matey.

I said that's how I felt at the time, and I did (about the car). But it didn't matter what his background was. The thing is, Benn, IMV was right and not patronising about socialism and the working class, which cannot be said of all middle-class socialists.

[Richard Barrett]

Ms Thornberry appeared quite often on TV political programmes in the UK before the 'white van' incident.

Well there you are - I don't have a TV and if I did I wouldn't have access to British programmes. I agree with you about discussing the term "faux-left" - that's precisely why I've been asking what it means and who it refers to, without receiving much enlightenment.