.. the first casualty of politics is the truth

[MrGongGong]

Being in opposition to the state Israel does not make one anti-semitic, although George Galloway goes too far in my opinion and it was confidence-giving that the Police interviewed him under caution regarding his speech on Israel, recently.

It's when the views on Israel amount to incitement and/or create a nasty threatening atmosphere, where the problem is, IMV.

The problem is that for some, any statements that are in opposition to the actions of Israel are by definition "Anti Semitic".

You seem to be suggesting more of the "PC nonsense" that you and your elk so despise.

Sadly much of the rise of this is a direct result of the actions (and lack of action) of our government and its allies.

[jean]

How does one (a serious question) separate out REAL anti semitism from those who perceive it in all opposition to Israel?

This is not an easy question to answer, imv. I have read what claims to be anti-Zionism, but which reads like good old antisemitism to me - and not just from George Galloway. But best not go there (and I'm sorry for starting it).

[teamsaint]

Her "apology" however contains the statement "If people today had the cooking skills that previous generations had, none of us would be eating so much pre-prepared food."

Previous generations of course lived in a world in which many women didn't have jobs and people weren't caught up in a long-working-hours culture or having to work well over an hour's travelling distance from home thus having greatly more time for traditional housekeeping activities. She also extols the virtues of porridge, which of course is actually a pre-packaged food, and claims that a bowl of it costs 4p which may have been true forty years ago.

there seems to be very little discussion in public life of the kids of lives we want to lead.

However, and much more importantly, I suspect that made with Tesco value oats, water, and salt, ( the hair shirt method) the porridge costings are about right !!

[Beef Oven!]

Her "apology" however contains the statement "If people today had the cooking skills that previous generations had, none of us would be eating so much pre-prepared food."

Previous generations of course lived in a world in which many women didn't have jobs and people weren't caught up in a long-working-hours culture or having to work well over an hour's travelling distance from home thus having greatly more time for traditional housekeeping activities. She also extols the virtues of porridge, which of course is actually a pre-packaged food, and claims that a bowl of it costs 4p which may have been true forty years ago.

It is true that work and travel-time to work are inhibiters. But on the other hand, 40 years ago people tended not to have freezers and microwaves, which greatly increase 'home' cooking options. I think it's more that we have not 'evolved' the activity of cooking properly.

She's wrong about the cost of porridge - 50g of oats and milk (from Morrisons) will set you back about 11p all in, not 4p.

[MrGongGong]

This is not an easy question to answer, imv. I have read what claims to be anti-Zionism, but which reads like good old antisemitism to me - and not just from George Galloway. But best not go there (and I'm sorry for starting it).

I think people should discuss this as it is IMV at the heart of much of the conflict in the world today.

[MrGongGong]

It is true that work and travel-time to work are inhibiters. But on the other hand, 40 years ago people tended not to have freezers and microwaves, which greatly increase 'home' cooking options. I think it's more that we have not 'evolved' the activity of cooking properly.

Didn't you get cook to make it for you?

[Richard Barrett]

much more importantly, I suspect that made with Tesco value oats, water, and salt, ( the hair shirt method) the porridge costings are about right !!

I bow to your superior knowledge, teamsaint; personally I can't be in the same room where porridge is being made or eaten, and I'm very loath to wash up items that have contained it, so I really shouldn't presume to comment on it at all.

[Beef Oven!]

Didn't you get cook to make it for you?

Listen mate, I was cooking my own breakfast at the age of 9, when people like you couldn't even make a cup of tea! ;-)

[Beef Oven!]

This is not an easy question to answer, imv. I have read what claims to be anti-Zionism, but which reads like good old antisemitism to me - and not just from George Galloway. But best not go there (and I'm sorry for starting it).

Just because Galloway is Scottish, it doesn't mean he eats porridge. That's just a horrid racial stereotype. Or have I missed your point?

[Richard Barrett]

I think people should discuss this as it is IMV at the heart of much of the conflict in the world today.

The point is to make a clear distinction between anti-semitism, which is racism, and opposition to the occupation, oppression, disenfranchisement and settlement-building imposed by Israeli governments (in particular since 1967) on the Arab inhabitants of what is now Israel. The fact that there's confusion over this is I think largely due to the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitism insisted on by Israeli governments and their allies abroad. Anti-semitism is an ugly and dangerous way to think, but no amount of it makes for example the bombing of Gaza this past summer in any way justifiable.

[MrGongGong]

The point is to make a clear distinction between anti-semitism, which is racism, and opposition to the occupation, oppression, disenfranchisement and settlement-building imposed by Israeli governments (in particular since 1967) on the Arab inhabitants of what is now Israel. The fact that there's confusion over this is I think largely due to the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitism insisted on by Israeli governments and their allies abroad. Anti-semitism is an ugly and dangerous way to think, but no amount of it makes for example the bombing of Gaza this past summer in any way justifiable.

Exactly and well put.

[jean]

...The fact that there's confusion over this is I think largely due to the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitism insisted on by Israeli governments and their allies abroad...

And I think it is at least in part due to antisemites finding anti-Zionism a convenient cover fro their ugly and dangerous views.

[Richard Barrett]

And I think it is at least in part due to antisemites finding anti-Zionism a convenient cover fro their ugly and dangerous views.

That is no doubt a factor too, but it shouldn't distract from concentration on the crimes of the Israeli state I think.